, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Well, if that were to happen, then the ultimate position we have is that we legislate ourselves in an area to recreate standards or to re-establish new standards, for example.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Well, thank you for that. The starting point, of course, is that we've opposed all along the concurrent powers, and it was the primary basis—. There were a number of others as well: the regulatory burden issue, the divergence issue, the intervention powers of…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
No. No, we're doing our own analysis, our own understanding of what they are. We have officials with considerable expertise in these areas of agriculture, food standards, environmental issues and so on.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
I'm not aware of them; they would come up with other ministerial portfolios. None have been identified. I think the crux of our oversight approach on this is you've got these 600 items, analysis is obviously being carried out by those officials with expertise…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Well, my understanding is that the analysis that's been done of those—. And of course there is still ongoing analysis; I understand that, in fact, UK Government have identified a certain number that actually have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Wales…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Well, address it to me, I'll—.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
What I'll do is I'll bring in Dr Robert Parry now, who perhaps might be able to tell us a little bit more about that process.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
That's right, in terms of revocation.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Well, there was a bit of that, because I think there's a certain justification for that, not just for Wales but for Scotland and, I think, for the UK Government itself. So, we have these 600 pieces that are the ones that have been identified. So, what has…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
The first thing that changed, which was very welcome, of course, was the decision to abandon the sort of Blitzkrieg abolition of all retained EU law by 31 December.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Obviously, the Office for the Internal Market is essentially an advisory body but a body that can put together evidence and assistance in terms of the operation of the internal market. How do they operate? Well, it seems to me that its main function would be…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Well, the policy is effective until such time as it is challenged. So, the Environmental Protection (Single-use Plastic Products) (Wales) Bill, which is now an Act, is effective, it has not been challenged and it is the law. And I think we proceed on that…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Well, I think we can only work by the analysis we have of what we think is the true position and what should be the correct position, and I think the two coincide. And our position, if our position is genuinely—and it is genuinely—that UKIMA does not impact…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
What the Court of Appeal said, what the Supreme Court said was, 'Well, of course, until we've actually got something practically in front of us, we can't really determine this. We can't really determine it purely on the sort of principled arguments that…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Yes, I don't see any difficulty with that. I'll happily give that to you, yes.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
I do agree, but you have to be aware, I think, of the discussions that take place and the positions that are taken by Government Ministers when Bills are going through. But you're right, and I think we will get to a stage, probably in the not-too-distant…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Look, I think the question is precisely what we bring to it and what it is we want to have coming out of that. So, it is not the case that there's a disregard for it, but it is getting to the stage where that is going to happen. I don't think it is…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
I think there's a general view that the mechanism will be used.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
They're there to advise and so on. Ministers, though, ultimately are the people who decide the direction. I mean, I'll give you the example we had with the retained EU law Bill. It was raised up to inter-ministerial level; the discussions we've had on a…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
So, there is that, and there is a lot of good co-operation that works there. Ultimately, the officials are there to do the bidding of what the Ministers are directing.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Yes. That was one particular example. There are others, of course, where, clearly, those officials who are engaged do understand.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
I think the answer is 'no'.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
No.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Well, the problem is, I think we've got to a situation where a number of things are happening. One of them is political. That is that there is a disregard for Sewel; it doesn't really matter what you decide, what you do, where you go with it, even if you go…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Only theoretically, because in practice, when you have Bill that's continually changing, continually being added to, and you see the number of supplementary legislative consent memoranda and so on, it's because of the very nature of legislation and the speed…
