, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
But that's not the—. It's the devolution points that we're having absolutely no engagement on at all.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
Well, we're in the process of discussing with the Counsel General and the First Minister escalation processes. I can't go into that.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
Well, by the time the Bill finishes its passage through the Senedd.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
So, it simply means that, instead of a complete one-stop-shop, we would have to write and ask the various non-devolved consultees to consult. They would do so, but they would be unable to recover their costs appropriately as part of that, and it would simply…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
Yes. This has not been fun, it has to be said, for a variety of reasons. But we requested the transfer of legislative competence to the Senedd for consenting of energy generation stations offshore between the edge of the territorial sea and the edge of the…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
And we've asked the developers, but, not surprisingly, they are quite shy about sharing their costs with us, so it's a—.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
Again, it's just about a streamlined process. So, at every point in this process, each of the organisations or statutory bodies or statutory consultees that engage, has to engage a single time, rather than multiple times, and on that basis, the amount of…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
So that's based on the things I've been saying already about the number of times you've got to engage in a process. So, what we're assuming—. We haven't got any real hard data on how much it costs a community to engage in a DNS process, really, and, you'll…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
No, not really, Delyth. What we're trying to do is we're trying to make sure that we've got things that we think will change in the regulations, or are likely to change and need review in the regulations, and things that we think are very, very unlikely to…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
Even on the things we require, just to say, we don't say that they have to be on parchment and signed or anything. Actually, in all fairness, there have been earlier Bills where it actually says things like, 'Three copies of something or other to be given…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
So, I think there's a big difference, myself—sorry for the constitutional nerdery—but I think there's a big difference between a framework Bill with Henry VIII powers in it that gives the Minister executive functions to do various things, and a headline Bill…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
Yes. So, if you use the pre-application process as an example here, we'll set out in the regulations the technical details: the types of pre-application services that should be provided, the consultation arrangements, the format of applications, exactly what…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
So, that's about the hierarchy of the decision-making process. So, again, Neil, I'm afraid I'm going to defer to you on that.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
I'm afraid you're doing that, Neil. [Laughter.]
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
So, it would be the same, Joyce. So, if you had a sudden change of heart or change of Government with very opposite proposals, then they could put policy statements through that contradicted the national framework, while they reviewed the national framework…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
And, just to be really clear, if that happens, then in the following review, you'd expect the major document to be reviewed accordingly.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
Well, in the review.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
We don't think they will be, is the truth, but we have to have the possibility that we somehow didn't think of everything in all of these plans, and that something happens that might be inconsistent. But we don't actually think that we're in that position…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
So, that's just about what's the swiftest route to address the issue that's emerged, really. So, policy statements are more reactive and quicker to implement on a specific policy. There have been lots of examples of this over the years, haven't there, rather…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
Sorry about that.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
So, we're not aware of any policy gaps at the moment. Applications must be determined in accordance with the national development framework for Wales—or 'Future Wales: The National Plan 2040', as we call it—the marine plan, and its associated policy…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
Well, I very much hope so, and then, of course, that will come into this regime.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
We just did a complete end-to-end review of the marine licensing process with NRW, and out of that has come a range of issues, one of which was what are the fees that can be charged. So, I don't want to go into controversial areas here, but you may know that…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
Sure. But that's a local—
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
Yes, so this is a much more straightforward regime, Jenny, and in fairness to the local authority, at the moment, trying to decide what exactly has been breached and under which regime they should try and enforce it is a real headache, whereas this is a…
