Plenary

We now move to questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services. Question 1 [OQ57459] is withdrawn. Question 2 first, therefore, and that is from Rhianon Passmore.

As of 12 January, there were 178 COVID-related patients in hospital across the health board area.

Diolch, Llywydd and Minister. Thank you for that update. Sadly, 1,160 people have died in the Aneurin Bevan University Health Board with deaths relating to COVID-19. The citizens of Islwyn and Wales have sacrificed so much in our continued fight against this vicious virus during the pandemic. The World Health Organization's COVID chief, David Nabarro, this week stated:

'Looking at it from a UK point of view, there does appear to be light at the end of the tunnel',

and it is never too late to be vaccinated in Wales. With COVID restrictions set to be lightened over the next few weeks, what can the Welsh Government do to reach and persuade people who are still to be convinced of the value of vaccination, and does the Welsh Government have any further public information plans to target the unvaccinated sections of our society, either through direct correspondence, or via new public health messaging?

Diolch yn fawr, Rhianon. I think what's really important is that we make it absolutely clear that it's never too late to arrange an appointment for a first or a second vaccine or a booster dose. So, together with our health boards and a wide range of partners, we're encouraging vaccine take-up, making it as easy as possible to get the vaccine, by offering a really flexible service that adapts according to local circumstances. So, obviously, in many places around Wales we have mass vaccination centres. They have extended hours, opening in the evening and on weekends as well. There have also been travel initiatives and pop-up clinics, walk-in centres and mobile services. And of course we've given additional incentives to GPs to take the vaccine into people's homes. And then, on top of that, we've had vaccine clinics in some very unusual places, making sure that people feel comfortable in surroundings where, if we hadn't done it there, they may not have stepped forward, particularly, in faith communities, cultural and community centres.

All of those are areas where we have tried to make a point of making sure that the information and the opportunity to have a vaccine are available, but also that the language issue is something that we're trying to overcome as well. There are details of all of this on the websites of the local health boards, and I would encourage everybody to take the opportunity to take up this vaccine offer. It's never too late to be protected.

Minister, whilst I understand that COVID has put the NHS in Wales under immense pressure, as it currently stands, hospitalisations for COVID are stable. With this in mind, Minister—. I'm contacted by constituents on a daily basis, as I'm sure we all are, with constituents in pain wondering how much longer they can go on. Minister, for example, an 83-year-old gentleman with osteoarthritis desperately waiting for a hip operation for three years, living in constant pain, is wondering how much longer he can go on living like this. Minister, we cannot continue to delay; waiting lists were far too long before the pandemic hit. Now that we are seeing COVID numbers falling and hospital rates stable, can you press to get elective surgery started again, to give people some hope? Thank you.

Thanks very much, Laura. I can't tell you how aware I am of the many thousands of people—not just your constituents, but people across the whole of Wales—who are genuinely suffering at the moment and are in a lot of pain. So, it is, after COVID, my first priority to get those waiting lists down. We're already working very hard with the health boards. We've set out some clear guidance in terms of what we expect to happen. We're waiting for them to report with their integrated medium-term plans, so they'll be presenting plans that they would like to bring forward.

I've made it clear to them, for example, that I want to see in those plans an opportunity for us to address some of these issues on a regional basis—so, not just keep them within the footprint of the health boards themselves—because I firmly believe that, if people are in pain, they're actually probably willing to travel a little bit further afield if they can go back and recover and recuperate closer to home. So, I'm very keen to see that kind of new model being developed. We're waiting for these to be presented. I've made it absolutely clear that it's going to be difficult during this period and we all knew that, as omicron was going to work itself through the NHS system, there would have to be a cutback in terms of the number of planned care operations carried out.

We'll be getting the new and latest statistics on waiting lists tomorrow. I've made it absolutely clear that I don't expect us to get back to normal or to get to a place where we're really trying to be really tackling that waiting list until maybe the spring because of the restrictions that we have to put in place due to COVID. So, it's not an easy option. I have absolute empathy for all those people in pain, and I would encourage your constituent to get in touch with their GP just to make sure that they've got some support and some help and some painkillers to get them through to that point where we can offer them that support that we're all desperate to get to them.

One crucial factor in ensuring hospitals can provide care is the level of staff absences. You've said, Minister, that there were around 10,000 staff absences in the Welsh NHS last week, and 98 per cent of British Medical Association Cymru members said they're concerned about staffing levels because of those absences. Last week, I asked the First Minister about providing higher grade masks for NHS staff, and he told me that the Welsh Government's policy was based on the advice of a UK-wide specialist group and, at the time, it wasn't advising making these masks available nationally. Following that exchange, Minister, concerns were relayed to me by doctors who feared that that advice was not scientifically sound in terms of ensuring their safety. I understand that the UK advice has now been updated and new guidance states that FFP3 masks must be worn by staff caring for patients with suspected or confirmed COVID infection. So, could you confirm whether the Welsh Government has received this new advice, and, if so, whether you intend to implement it, and, if you do, finally, could you give us an idea of timescale in terms of how long it'll take to fit-test all remaining front-line staff, to get these respirators to where they're needed, please?

Thanks very much, Delyth. I'm pleased to say that the sickness levels within the NHS have actually reduced from a week ago, so they were at about 8.3 per cent of staff off a week ago, now down to 7.3 per cent and, of those, around 1.7 per cent were off with COVID, and about 1 per cent of them were off for self-isolation reasons. So, the rest of them were kind of normal sickness that happens to lots of people at this time of year anyway.

In relation to the masks, I haven't seen that advice. I'm very happy to go and see if something's arrived, but I obviously can't give you any commitment on that until I've seen that advice, but I'll make a point of going to ask if we have received any additional update. I know it's something that we're constantly looking at; it's constantly kind of, 'Look, should we be doing this?' And we're waiting for the advice to change. We have been waiting for the advice to change. If the advice has changed, then, obviously, we will have to look at that again, but I haven't seen that updated advice, but I'll make a point of going to look for it now, Delyth.FootnoteLink

Thanks very much, Joel. The Welsh Government requires NHS organisations to assess barriers to accessing healthcare that affect people with hearing loss in line with the Equality Act 2010. Annual reports are submitted for assessment, detailing achievements made towards implementation of the all-Wales standards for accessible communication and information for people with sensory loss.

Thank you, Minister, and, as you mentioned, the all-Wales standards for accessible communication and information for people with sensory loss policy provides clear guidance on what GPs and hospitals should do to make their services more accessible for people with hearing and sight loss. It aims to make sure people with sensory loss can understand the health information they're given and have access to qualified British Sign Language interpreters or other forms of communication support during NHS appointments. Disappointingly, patients with sensory loss have reported to the group Action on Hearing Loss Cymru that they're not seeing the increased accessibility they were promised.

In 2018, a Welsh health circular stated that all relevant staff must be made aware of their responsibilities for recording such information, in order to support individuals with information and/or communication needs that are related to or caused by sensory loss. However, a Social Care Institute for Excellence survey found that, in Wales, more than half the people surveyed still leave their GP surgery unclear about their diagnosis or how to take their medication. In addition, 42 per cent of deaf BSL users say that communication at their appointments is inadequate because they don't have an interpreter and 36 per cent of survey respondents have to travel to their GP to book an appointment in person as they can't use the phone. With this in mind, would the Minister outline what action they intend to take to make sure that local health boards have mandatory induction training on sensory loss for NHS staff? And will the Minister outline what the Welsh Government proposes to do to enforce implementation of the current policy? Thank you.

Thanks very much, Joel, and it's disappointing to hear what you're setting out there. I know that officials are currently assessing the most recent submissions against those criteria that we set out in those all-Wales standards for communication and information for people with hearing loss. What those standards do is set out what every patient or service user should expect from those standards. And obviously I am concerned if we're not meeting those standards. So, presumably that will come through when those submissions are assessed. So, I'm just waiting for those. They then are going to report their findings to the NHS Wales national executive board and the NHS delivery framework board. And the idea then is to discuss any concerns they have in terms of the implementation of standards with those appropriate organisations, and if you're saying that there's a particular problem with GP surgeries, then obviously we'd expect that to come out in those assessments.

I guess that actually the move to online may be helpful in this regard, that the eConsult process should be easier for people with hearing loss in terms of being able to access GP surgeries. But the key thing is that we do need to learn from best practice, so I'll look forward to seeing that assessment and those submissions when they come in.

Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Welsh Conservative spokesperson first, James Evans.

Diolch, Llywydd. Deputy Minister, are you aware that the latest figures from the Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre suggest that a staggering 81 per cent of patients confirmed with COVID-19 in Wales had a BMI of over 25, when the healthy range is between 18.5 and 24.9. We're already seeing the stage when nearly two thirds of Welsh adults are overweight or obese, with a quarter of Welsh adults being obese. This is one of the highest rates in the UK. Obesity causes one of the biggest risks to your health, from heart disease, diabetes, high cholesterol and orthopaedic problems, and this costs the NHS millions of pounds each year. Minister, do you think that 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' has reduced obesity figures over the last few years or is it yet again a Welsh Government strategy that is simply not working?

Can the Deputy Minister's microphone be unmuted, please? Lynne Neagle. Yes, there it is; sorry for that. Deputy Minister.

Thank you. Thank you, James, for that question. I haven't seen the study that you have referred to, although of course I'm very well aware of the link between being overweight and increased susceptibility to having serious COVID. But I completely refute your suggestion that our strategy, 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales', is just another Welsh Government strategy. We're investing £6.6 million every year in this strategy, which is about to be re-launched and will take account of the fact that the pandemic has actually worsened the problems that we face with obesity. We will have a range of measures in place to drive down the levels of obesity, which are not just a problem in Wales, they are a problem throughout the UK.

Thank you, Deputy Minister. And I do appreciate it isn't just a problem in Wales, it is a problem across the UK. You said to myself and colleagues on the Children, Young People and Education Committee that you're due to set out a new delivery plan for 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' between 2022 and 2024 on 1 March, which is due to be a cross-departmental effort, with seven national priority areas. I'd just be interested to know, given that the previous delivery plan was published less than a year ago, how much progress has been made on the eight national priority areas in that plan. And do you think that the £6.6 million in the 2022-24 budget for 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' is enough to carry out your aims in the new delivery plan, considering the rising numbers of people becoming overweight?

Well, in terms of the delivery plan we've been working to, that had to be adapted because of the impact of the pandemic. The pandemic has undoubtedly had an impact on our ability to take action in this area and, as I've already said, has actually worsened the problems with obesity and people being overweight. I set out the figures that we are investing, which are very substantial, in the children's committee last week. But we are keeping the delivery plan under regular review, so that we can actually flex our actions to respond to the outcomes that we're seeing. For instance, I referred in the committee last week to the investment that we're putting in to the children and families pilot. Well, obviously, we'll want to look at the impact of those pilots, identify how we can use the learning, and then, if necessary, will use further funding to take that forward. So, I don't see the document as being set in stone at all. Obviously, it's something that has to be a living document, particularly in light of the impact we've seen the pandemic having on people's physical and mental health; we're all moving less, and that presents more significant challenges.

Thank you, Deputy Minister. And I do agree that these documents should be live, working documents that do change and adapt, but it is nice to see what delivery comes from those sorts of measures that are in those documents.

Finally, you mentioned last week that the diabetes prevention programme was now live in Wales, and I'm really, really pleased to see that. But I am concerned that we have a lot of catching up to do with our neighbours, given that the English NHS launched their own programme in 2016, and the Scottish NHS not long after, in 2017. Current estimates suggest that one in five of the Welsh population are at risk of developing type 2 diabetes, and this is going to cost the Welsh NHS up to £500 million a year to help manage diabetes and the complications that come with that, so we need to be reassured that this new programme will be a success. So, I want to know what milestones and targets you're working towards in the programme, and how you will ensure that it's reviewed honestly and regularly. Diolch, Llywydd, and thank you very much, Minister.

Thank you, James. As I said last week in the committee, we've been piloting the diabetes prevention programme, and what we're doing now is upscaling that across the whole of Wales. But that is not the only measure that we're taking to prevent type 2 diabetes. We've also got the all-Wales weight management pathway, which covers children and adults, and I think we shouldn't forget that, unfortunately, we're seeing more children now being at risk of type 2 diabetes, which is incredibly worrying. But also, in terms of what we are doing as Ministers to drive delivery in this area, both myself and Eluned Morgan have been very clear that we see this area as a priority for prevention. It has been set out in the measures that have been issued to NHS bodies in Wales by the Minister, and we are both making sure that, in our discussions with the NHS, we continue to drive home the message that we expect them to deliver on this agenda and to make a difference in this agenda. It is challenging to set targets in this area, especially as we come out of, hopefully, the pandemic, because things like the child measurement programme have been affected, but we have been very, very clear that we expect those services to be recovered, and that the expectation of Ministers is that reducing levels of overweight and obesity is a priority for us, and that's something that we will be measuring going forward.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. Seventy per cent of care home residents live with dementia, and social contact, particularly with family or informal carers, is very important to them in terms of keeping hold of their cognitive skills and so on. The safety measures during lockdown were crucial in terms of preventing the spread of COVID, but given the evidence, such as research by the Alzheimer's Society, that suggests that 82 per cent of people with dementia had seen their condition decline during the first lockdown and that the reduction in social contact was a major factor in that, would the Minister agree with the principle of what John's Campaign is calling for, namely that we must find ways of safeguarding those contacts, even in the face of the challenges of COVID? And is the change in legislation to make visiting rights a fundamental human right for patients with dementia, as the Plaid Cymru MP Liz Saville Roberts called for recently, something the Minister could support?

Thank you very much, Rhun. I am highly aware of the fact that so many people are experiencing dementia the length and breadth of Wales, not just those in care homes, but there are many people living at home too who have been isolated, have had less social contact, and we have seen decline during that period among elderly people particularly. And that is why, time and time again, we have ensured that we look in detail at what the guidance should be in terms of visiting care homes. We have tried to strike the right balance, and it is difficult to do that, because everyone would be screaming and shouting if we had seen a system where we were introducing omicron or COVID into care homes. So, we have to strike the right balance, and it's difficult.

Our guidance is clear. People do have a right to visit a loved one in a care home, but the problem is that most of these are privately run homes, run by people who have to pay for insurance, and they fear that their insurance wouldn't safeguard them if COVID was introduced into their care home. So, in terms of a change in legislation, I think that would be a very major step to take in terms of what constitutes a human right. Now, a human right says that an individual has a right to a family life—I think that's the wording, I'm not sure. So, I'm sure you could appeal to that already. So, the question following on from that is whether that would stand up in a court of law. I think it would be very difficult to go any further than that. I don't know if there are other examples elsewhere in the world, but that right already exists, the right to a family life.

Thank you for that response. And, yes, it would be a major step, but an important step too. And the whole point of placing it in legislation would be to ensure that the principle couldn't be ignored; one would have to act on that principle.

In Wales, very promising steps have been taken—the principle of care partners in the Wales dementia action plan, for example—but there is a great gulf between what is described in that plan and the reality of the situation. There are health and care settings where guidance isn't followed. As the Minister mentioned, there are additional problems in terms of having insurance for issues related to COVID in care homes, and I echo Care Forum Wales's own request for an indemnity scheme, similar to the NHS's indemnity scheme, for the care sector. But as we are now in the last year of the current dementia plan—and this is the key issue—how will the Government seek to ensure that positive words are made a reality?

Thank you very much. We have set out the guidance clearly. I know that Julie Morgan has ensured that she's done everything in her power to allow people the access they need to go and visit their families. The current dementia plan—. We're looking to the future now, and I think there is an opportunity there to see how far we could go with individual rights. But I would have thought that rights—. A right is a major legislative step to take. Clearly, we would then need to make place in the political agenda to deal with that. It would be a very major step. So, I'm willing to look at the issue and to consider whether it would make sense, but I think the best thing would be to try to continue to convince those who haven't been following guidance that it is part of their responsibility to do so. And, of course, most of these care homes are in receipt of funding from local authorities, from the Government, and therefore there is a possibility there to try and see what impact we could have through the contracts that we provide to these homes.

The next question is to be answered by the Deputy Minister for Social Services and to be asked by Natasha Asghar. That's question 4.

Thank you. It is vital that all children and adults with a neurodevelopmental condition, including those with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, can access the services that they need. A demand and capacity review of all neurodevelopmental services will report in March, and we will act on the recommendations it makes for improvement across Wales.

Thank you for your reply, Minister, and also for your prompt reply to my written question on this issue. I'm very pleased to hear that you have plans for a new time framework to improve children's early access to the right support, as well as a collaboration across Government to improve support for people with ADHD. However, as I said during last week's business statement, many adults across Wales are being undiagnosed in their childhood, and we know that a person's personal circumstances can bring about profound change within their mental health. Sufferers go undiagnosed until adulthood, because the diagnostic criteria is based on research that focuses on traits exhibited by young boys. Leading psychologists have warned that gender bias is leaving many women with ADHD undiagnosed, and it's estimated that tens of thousands of women in the UK were actually unaware that they have the condition and are not receiving the help that they need. I was surprised to see with my own eyes the NHS 111 Wales website state, with regard to such services, and I quote,

'Who you are referred to depends on your age and what is available in your local area.'

Minister, this began with a constituent who had contacted me to complain that his doctor's surgery could not do a referral for his wife, as there is no such service available. And since my statement in the Senedd previously, more and more people are writing to me from various areas in Wales expressing the hurdles they have faced personally and for their loved ones. So, can you, please, Deputy Minister, confirm that the planned new framework will address these concerns of those adults who have not yet been diagnosed in their childhood and require support? And will you be able to give some insight as to when your proposals will be published? Thank you.

Thank you very much, Natasha, for that question, and thank you very much for the work that you've been doing to raise the profile of ADHD. I think it's been well publicised, and thank you for that. We know how important it is to concentrate on assessment and support for neurodevelopment conditions, which includes, of course, ADHD, and, of course, includes adults. And the review I've already mentioned will cover children and adults. It will report in March and will provide options for service improvements. It will say where the pathway is ahead, and we plan to publish a delivery plan before we go for the summer recess. So, before summer, we will know what the plans are. I'm very aware of the situations that you describe, and I'm aware that many adults were not diagnosed when they were children and that there is a need there amongst the adult population that we're only just beginning to recognise and we're not really aware of the extent of it. So, we need to find out much more about it, and we are looking at the data that we collect in order to do that.

I'm also aware about the issue that Natasha mentions about women and girls and the fact that, with conditions such as ADHD and autism, they are much less likely to receive a diagnosis than men and boys are. I think the reasons for this are very complex, but we're working with our stakeholders, which of course does include women who have ADHD themselves, to consider the impact of this disparity and how we can increase good practice in this area.

So, we're very aware of all those points you make and we have a pathway ahead, and, as I said, thank you for the attention you're giving to this subject.

We are supporting all areas in reducing community transmission. Local action and protections are targeted at areas where rates are increasing. The virus spreads more easily in urban areas where the population density is higher.

Thank you, Minister. I welcome the steps that you have outlined in your respone. The pandemic has clearly revealed the socioeconomic inequalities that exist within our society, and indeed have exacerbated those inequalities. These inequalities are also health inequlaities, with a clear relationship between one's socioeconomic situation and the impact of COVID on them. Figures from England show that those living in communities described as being left behind are 46 per cent more likely to die of COVID as compared to those not living in these communities, and the 'Locked Out' report in Wales noted that socioeconomic factors play a crucial role in the higher level of deaths among disabled people and the impact on their health and care compared to the rest of the population as a result of COVID. It's clear therefore that the Government's health policy for the future needs to do more to deal with these inequalities as we continue to tackle COVID levels and its impact, including long COVID. Could the Government therefore ensure that any new steps to tackle the transmission and impact of COVID incorporate clear strategies to tackle these health inequalities? Thank you.

Thank you very much, Sioned. This follows on from the discussion we had in the Senedd last week. I thought that was a very detailed and appropriate debate from everyone who contributed. We're highly aware of the difference in terms of where COVID has hit hardest, and it's clear that those in poorer areas, in poorer households have suffered more than other areas. Therefore, as we rebuild from the pandemic, clearly we consider these issues not just in terms of health but across Government in order that we do more to ensure that we don't see those inequalities for the future.

From a health perspective, I have made it very clear to the health boards that we would see the same outcome if we were to have another pandemic, unless we do things differently. So, from my perspective, I've been entirely clear with the health boards that we do have to tackle the issue of prevention. We have to stop people from smoking. We've been discussing obesity too. All of those factors are crucially important in terms of individual health for the future. But it's not something that is limited to health; it is crucial that we consider education, the economy, and all of the other issues that contribute to the way in which people live.

Minister, despite having the most stringent measures in place to curb the transmission of COVID-19, Wales has the highest infection rates of any home nation and one of the highest per capita death rates in the world. Does your Government now accept that the non-pharmaceutical interventions are now doing more harm than good? And with, according to your chief medical officer, over 90 per cent of the Welsh population possessing COVID-19 antibodies, do you accept that we now have to learn to live with COVID, rather than focusing our efforts on how to stop it?

Thanks very much, Gareth. I almost encouraged you, didn't I, yesterday, to ask me this question, so I'm very pleased that you have asked me this question, because it gives me an opportunity to say that, actually, the data we've had so far actually suggests that those restrictions were helpful. We've certainly seen a difference in terms of hospitalisation. We're just waiting for that data to be processed. England certainly had higher rates in terms of hospitalisation compared to all of the other three nations that introduced restrictions. It's still early days, so we'll wait for that final data to be published, hopefully by the end of this week.

I think, also, this is about counting, Gareth. So, the way we count cases is different in all four nations. For example, England doesn't count reinfections, so that could make a considerable difference. Wales does count reinfections if they are 42 days apart. That makes a big difference to the numbers. Our policy on testing changed, of course, so that may have made a difference. Also, I think what you'll find is that people modified their behaviour in England when they heard the chief medical officer, because, obviously, your Prime Minister was not in a position to tell anyone to do anything because of all the parties he'd been holding. So, what happened is that people listened to the chief medical officer in England and they curbed their behaviour. What they didn't have in England was the kind of economic support that we were able to give to our businesses because of the protections that we put in place. I'm pleased to say that the indications so far are that it was helpful to put those restrictions in place, but, obviously, we will need to wait for a few more days just to be absolutely confident that that is the case.

Certainly, the statistics I've seen so far are that we had about 170,000 people with COVID. If we were in the same position as England, we'd have had 40,000 extra people with COVID, and if we were in London, we'd have seen almost 70,000 people additional having COVID. That would be the whole of the millennium stadium being filled additionally on top of the numbers that we had. So, those are some of the early calculations, but, obviously, we wait for that data to be comprehensive.

Thank you, Buffy. The community development hubs in Rhondda Cynon Taf are good examples of projects embodying social prescribing principles across the Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board area. We are also taking forward our programme for government commitment to develop an all-Wales framework to support social prescribing.

Thank you, Deputy Minister. Since the beginning of the pandemic, we've seen GP surgeries completely change the way that they operate. In Rhondda, this has meant an astronomical increase to the number of residents that GPs support. Around 20 per cent of these residents won't require medical support and will instead benefit from social prescribing. I recently visited Men's Shed Treorchy, who provide an invaluable service at the top of the Rhondda Fawr, alongside Forest View surgery and a local housing association. We know that social prescribing works and has changed many people's lives. How will the Welsh Government work with multiple agencies to ensure that we see the roll-out of social prescribing right across the Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board area, and not just in small pockets, which so many residents in need of this specific support can benefit from?

Thank you for that supplementary, Buffy. As you know, we are developing a national framework for social prescribing in Wales, which is designed to make sure that there is good coverage everywhere really, not just in pockets. There are some brilliant examples of social prescribing, and I'm a huge fan of the Men's Shed movement. We've been very clear that, as we take forward this national framework, what we want to do is add value. We're not looking to duplicate what's working well at the moment; we want to add value and augment and support services to ensure that everybody has access to good-quality services. We're already this year investing £89 million through the integrated care fund in social prescribing, but, going forward, our new health and social care regional integration fund will also have set funding for social prescribing. That will be a five-year funding model, so that will provide more sustainability. We're making really good progress with the national framework. There's going to be engagement now over the next few months with stakeholders on a draft framework, and then we'll be going out to consultation. So, the work is proceeding really well. The aim will be to make sure that everywhere in Wales has a good social prescribing offer that is appropriate to local needs.

Thank you, Mark. We continue to prioritise support for eating disorder services in line with the recommendations in the 2018 independent review. We have increased investment each year since 2017 to support equitable service improvements, including increasing community treatment and support and early intervention services.

Thank you. The Welsh Government's eating disorder service review in 2018 set out an ambitious vision based on early intervention, evidence-based treatment and support for families. Eating disorder charity Beat played a key role in this review. Beat's 'The Welsh Eating Disorder Service Review: 3 years on' report, published this week, found that progress towards achieving that vision has varied widely across Wales. Will the Welsh Government, in line with Beat's recommendation, publish a new service model or framework, including timescales that set out what they would expect from health boards? If so, when would you expect this to happen?

Thank you, Mark. As you highlighted, the 2018 review did set out a radical agenda for change, but we were very clear that that would have to be undertaken in a phased way. The Welsh Government funds Beat; we give Beat £100,000. So, I would just like to take this opportunity to thank Beat for the really important support that they're providing as a third sector organisation. Their report, which I believe was just published today, I've only had a chance to have a very quick look at, but we will be using that report to inform our work going forward. We have invested very substantially in eating disorder services—£3.8 million funding since 2017. Given the very significant additional funding that the Welsh Government is making to mental health services for the next three years, I can also confirm that we will be using some of that money to improve eating disorder services. You rightly highlight the need for there to be clear national direction to ensure equitable services going forward. The national lead for eating disorder services has left to take up a new service, so we're currently looking at a new model to make sure that the improvements we want to see are taken forward on a national basis. I'll be happy to update you further on that in due course.

Thank you. Mental health support in Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire is provided by the NHS and a range of partners. Hywel Dda University Health Board's transforming mental health services programme is providing further benefits.

Thank you, Deputy Minister. I recently met with representatives of Dezza's Cabin, a charity set up following the tragic suicide of Derek Brundrett, a pupil at Ysgol Harri Tudur, formerly Pembroke comprehensive school, back in 2013. The charity aims to provide support to reduce the suicide and self-harm risk in young people, as well as offering signposting for mental health support services. Will you join me in praising the work of organisations such as Dezza's Cabin, who provide such a valuable service to the local community? And will you commit to look into what support is available to provide longer term funding to this organisation, so they can continue to grow and expand their service?

Thank you for that question. I'm really sorry to hear about the young person that you referred to. I'm really pleased to see any organisation that is working to support people either affected by suicide or to prevent suicide. I've not come across this organisation myself, but I'm very happy to have a look at the work that they do. We recently closed a bidding round for a significant amount of bereavement support in Wales—some £1 million that I'll be making an announcement on shortly—but I would advise that the organisation makes contact with the health board and the regional partnership board, as there may be funding opportunities through there. But I'd be very happy to have a look at the work that they do and to signpost to further opportunities for support.

Finally, question 9, Mabon ap Gwynfor.

Thank you. The Welsh Government has already committed to providing the recommended personal protective equipment to social care workers, free of charge, until the end of the pandemic. This is managed through regular deliveries to local authorities for their onward distribution to public and private services.

Thank you very much to the Deputy Minister for that response. It's interesting, because a constituent of mine has been in touch with the office, mentioning that she now, because of breathing difficulties, needs a CPAP machine in her bedroom. As a result of this, she's received advice from the respiratory team in hospital that she herself needs to provide FFP3 masks to her carers. Now, she has contacted her GP, and the GP has told her that it is the responsibility of social services to provide this equipment. In turn, social services have told her that it's the responsibility of the GP to provide these masks. Now, they're very expensive for individuals, and she can't afford to buy this equipment every time someone visits. So, can you therefore confirm what accounts for this confusion for my constituent and ensure that people know how people should get equipment and who should provide that equipment?

Thank you very much, Mabon, for that question, and, obviously, this is of great importance to your constituent. I think the best way of dealing with the individual situation is perhaps if you write in about that situation. We will take it up to look at the specific circumstances that you're referring to.

Certainly, enhanced PPE, such as FFP3 face masks, is recommended in instances where a member of the health or social care staff may be undertaking an aerosol-generating procedure. And, certainly, I think we need to look at what procedure your constituent is having undertaken. And, certainly, throughout the whole of this pandemic, the Welsh Government has provided items of PPE, free of charge, to hospitals and to social care, to ensure that the protection is there. And, in fact, since March 2020, 514.6 million items of PPE have been issued. So, I think we have certainly got a very good record in terms of delivering PPE, but, obviously, I think this particular incident is one that we should look into.

I thank the Deputy Minister and the rest of the Ministers.

We now move to topical questions. There is one topical question today—that's from Heledd Fychan, to be answered by the Deputy Minister for Arts and Sport, and Chief Whip. Heledd Fychan

Can I thank Heledd Fychan for that question? I met with the BBC yesterday, and we are working with them to understand the impact of the deeply concerning UK Government licence fee announcement and what it means for services and the media sector in Wales.

Thank you, Deputy Minister. The UK Government announcement on the licence fee on Monday is further proof that Wales's needs with regard to media will never be met while Westminster remains in control of them, and marks the beginning of the end for the whole concept of public broadcasting in the UK. Freezing the licence fee for two years will lead to major uncertainty for the future of the media in Wales, especially for our national channel, S4C, and Radio Cymru, which will be funded entirely from the licence fee. Nadine Dorries confirmed that the licence fee will be frozen for two years, which represents a significant real-terms cut in the corporation's budget.

Many on the Conservative benches in Westminster have noted the importance of Welsh-medium broadcasting and the additional funding for S4C. However, do they acknowledge that a real-terms cut to the BBC settlement will inevitably have an impact on Welsh language provision, bearing in mind that the BBC provides around £20 million-worth of S4C programming every year? An increase in funding for S4C's digital output cannot compensate for that cut, not to mention Radio Cymru. It is clearer than ever that we need a healthier media landscape in Wales. The UK Government is increasingly hostile to the BBC, while, at the same time, local news output is declining. This is pushing Wales into a corner in terms of a media deficit in Welsh and English, which is damaging our democracy.

With further talk of abolishing the licence fee entirely after 2027, I welcome more than ever the intention to call for the devolution of broadcasting that has been included in the co-operation agreement. Would the Deputy Minister agree that recent developments underline the importance of the Welsh Government's commitment to support the devolution of communication and broadcasting to Wales, so that we are not trapped in a race to the bottom where profit trumps quality provision?

Can I thank Heledd Fychan for those further comments? I largely agree with everything that she has said. Public service broadcasters play an incredibly important role in Wales's cultural and economic life, and we're deeply concerned at the reckless UK Government announcement made concerning both their immediate and long-term future. The people of Wales expect and deserve public service broadcasting that reflects Welsh life, supports our diverse creative expressions and promotes the Welsh language. The confirmed real-terms funding cut announced in recent days could threaten all those key elements of existing services, as well as the development of the media industry in Wales. It's simply not credible to believe that the UK Government has prepared longer term plans to take account of these issues.

The manner of these announcements clearly demonstrates that the opposite is true. Although we had an announcement from Nadine Dorries about the abolition of the licence fee, it does appear that Rishi Sunak has rolled back on that somewhat over the last couple of days, when they've seen the backlash from the public on that particular announcement. Because that announcement clearly wasn't credible insofar as any kind of comprehensive plan that was ready to be announced so soon after No. 10 had found itself yet again mired in another political crisis of its own making. What I would say is that the expansion of the BBC operation in Wales has been integral to the remarkable success of the tv and film industry in Wales over recent years, and any threat to this progress would be a visible demonstration of this Government's intent to level down and hold back the Welsh economy.

In relation to the devolution of broadcasting, as Heledd Fychan knows, there is a commitment in the co-operation agreement, which is to jointly explore the creation of a shadow broadcasting and communications authority for Wales, providing additional investment to develop enterprises to improve Welsh-based media and journalism. We're working on plans to pursue the case for devolution of broadcasting and communication powers in readiness for the devolution of those powers to Wales. I think it's true to say that there is a broad consensus that the current broadcasting and communications framework is inadequate. It's hampering the democratic life of our country, it's not serving the needs or the ambitions of the Welsh language, and its latest attack on public service broadcasting is the latest proof that this current system will not deliver that.

I'll just finish by repeating what the First Minister said yesterday, and that is that there is now an urgent need for a coalition of support to defend public funding for public service broadcasting in the UK.

Deputy Minister, I wish to welcome the commitment to Welsh language broadcasting that has been realised with the significant extra funding for S4C. Our party established the channel over 40 years ago, and we will always secure its role in Welsh life, regardless of how the BBC is funded and frivolous claims from opposition parties. I joined my colleague Tom Giffard in writing to the then Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport calling for an increased funding settlement for S4C last year, and I'm glad that our calls were heeded. Indeed, I was pleased to see that S4C's senior leadership have also welcomed the extra funding, with S4C's new chief executive Siân Doyle saying

'This is great news for S4C's audience in Wales and beyond'.

And S4C's chair, Rhodri Williams, saying

'This settlement reflects the faith of the DCMS, and the Secretary of State Nadine Dorries, in S4C's vision for the next five years.'

During the meeting I had with the new chief executive last week, the passion for bringing the channel into the digital age was evident. The additional funding of £7.5 million per annum to support digital services is an acknowledgment that online streaming services now play a huge role in our consumption of television shows. Putting S4C up there with the streaming giants such as Netflix and Amazon Prime will bring a new and growing audience to Welsh language content. Will you join not only me but also the senior leadership team of S4C in welcoming this additional funding announcement to support Welsh language broadcasting here in Wales?

Well, can I thank Samuel Kurtz for that further question? He is absolutely right, S4C did have a more favourable settlement than the BBC, and the work that S4C are undertaking in terms of developing Welsh language programming is to be welcomed and I am absolutely happy to do that. However, this question was about funding of the BBC, and the BBC and its wider role in terms of supporting public service broadcasting, not just in Wales but in the UK and across the world. We shouldn't forget the role that the BBC plays in developing and supporting the Welsh language in Wales with BBC Radio Cymru et cetera, and some of the programming that they do for S4C as well. So, whilst I absolutely do welcome the far better settlement that S4C had compared to the BBC, I am not suggesting for one moment that what we have seen here in the announcement on BBC funding is anywhere near adequate, and does present an absolute threat to the future of public service broadcasting unless this is addressed as a matter of urgency.

I thank the Deputy Minister.

The 90-second statements are next. There's only one of those, and it comes from Janet Finch-Saunders.

Diolch, Llywydd. I wish to place on record my most sincere congratulations and gratitude to Her Majesty's Coastguard in celebrating their two-hundredth year anniversary of service and dedication to our coastal communities. Originally founded in 1822 to tackle the tax-dodging illicit trade in goods, Her Majesty's Coastguard has evolved into a British institution that ensures our people's safety around UK shores. Working 24 hours a day, the innovative and dedicated organisation now boasts 3,500 volunteers and 310 teams nationwide, and they are supported by 10 search-and-rescue helicopters.

It would be remiss of me, Llywydd, to not take this opportunity to express my particular thanks to the team of the Llandudno coastguard, who working with the Royal National Lifeboat Institution and whose professionalism continues to save lives at sea and among our local coastal areas, such as the Great Orme and the Little Orme. As record numbers of people have holidayed along British shores over recent years, the unassuming sandbanks of the Conwy estuary on the west shore have at times become a regular hotspot for rescues, with the cool-headed co-ordination of our coastguard and the RNLI in conducting their responses remaining a point of local pride. On this important two-hundredth anniversary, Members across the Siambr will, I hope, agree that the selfless bravery shown by its members in the most turbulent of conditions, responding to those in distress, is something that we all remain thankful for.

As we approach 27 January, it will be the very sad anniversary of the sinking of the Nicola Faith, and we lost three members of our community—Ross Ballantine, Alan Minard and Carl McGrath. I hope Members will join me with our thoughts about the members of the family, and also again thank the coastguard for all the work and the two-day search-and-rescue operation that took place there, hoping to bring these fishermen home. Thank you for your time, Llywydd, and diolch.

I thank the Member for that contribution.

The next item, therefore, is the debate on a petition on reinstating cervical screening to every three years, and I call on the Chair of the Petitions Committee to move the motion—Jack Sargeant.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. On behalf of the committee, thank you very much for the opportunity to present this debate on this important petition.

As Members will know, the recent change in the cervical screening arrangements in Wales has been of significant public interest. This petition to the Senedd, titled 'Reinstate cervical screening to every 3 years' gathered 30,133 signatures in just three days, and a similar petition on the change.org platform has so far received over 1.2 million signatures. Llywydd, to put this into perspective, that is over 100,000 more people than who voted in the Senedd elections last May. This is utterly remarkable and it demonstrates the strength of feeling and concern about women's health in Wales.

I don't pretend to be a medical expert, but what is clear to me is that women right across Wales want and deserve answers. The petitioner, Joanne Stroud, is passionate about the importance of regular screening and is pleased that the Senedd's petitions process has ensured that her voice will be heard on the floor of this Chamber today. Her petition represents thousands of women's fears, disappointment and dismay about how and why this change happened. Therefore, Llywydd, we asked the petitioner to close the petition after just three days, so that it could come forward to the Petitions Committee last week, and they agreed to request it be considered for debate immediately. I'm grateful to the Llywydd and members of the Business Committee for enabling this debate to take place today, and I'm also grateful of the Welsh Conservatives for offering some of their time in today's proceedings. I'd also like to extend my thanks, on behalf of the committee, to Gareth and Mared and the wider clerking team for all their work on this important petition.

At the start of January, Cervical Screening Wales extended the routine screening for 25 to 49-year-olds from three to five years. The change was recommended by the UK National Screening Committee in 2019 due to the success of the human papillomavirus vaccine roll-out and the use of, and I quote, 'more accurate' cervical screening. This was announced on 4 January and a social media storm erupted—challenging, questioning and seeking clarification about why there would be a longer interval between life-saving cervical screenings. Such an important decision and change should have been carefully and fully explained and effectively communicated to all women in Wales. Social media is excellent for many things, but it should not have been used as the way to announce such an important issue.

I do hope that this debate today will provide an opportunity to listen to the concerns women in Wales have, and to hear facts about why the changes to the screening framework have been made. Many women will not have been offered the highly effective HPV vaccine, which was introduced in 2008. For them, the key question is whether it is possible to come into contact with HPV and for problems to develop in the five-year gap between screenings. I know many of you will have read similar concerned e-mails to the ones I have received from women in my constituency who feel they are bearing the brunt of cost-cutting and time-saving measures during a period of extreme pressure on our NHS.

I welcome the chance to debate this in the Senedd today, particularly during cancer awareness week, as Jack Sargeant has just pointed out, and given the strength of feeling on this from women, and in support of women, on these significant changes that have taken place. And I thank Jack Sargeant and the Petitions Committee, the Government and the Llywydd, for allowing this to come forward at such speed. The strength of feeling has been exceptionally high, as demonstrated by the sheer amount of signatures the petition has gained, as outlined by Jack earlier, with the shocking statistic, as he said, of 100,000 more people signing that than voted in our Senedd elections.

I find it very concerning that the decision to extend the time between cervical cancer screenings from three to five years wasn't given the right, careful promotion that was needed to ensure that half of the population of Wales were educated properly on these hugely significant changes. The way that the news was broken to women the length and breadth of our country was shameful, with a snappy headline on social media that ensued panic. That's not a bad use of the word; there was panic amongst women and families across Wales because, as Mr Sargeant pointed out earlier, we have been educated for years on the timing and how significant it is at catching cervical cancer as early as possible.

The lack of information following from that snappy headline just assumed everyone knew why this was happening, that everyone would know the move was due to a positive development in science, rather than an alarming extension of two years where women would be unable to be screened as they previously were and any cancerous cells would not be picked up. People know full well that when you're diagnosed can mean the difference between life and death—that's how we've been educated. The lack of information from this Government and Public Health Wales on such an important development and change caused anxiety and distress across our nation, worried about developing cervical cancer and not catching it in time. And for families as well there was panic, particularly those who have lost people to cervical cancer.

It brings me some comfort that both Jo's Cervical Cancer Trust and Cancer Research UK are in support of this change, as outlined today. But this and the reasons for it need to be brought to women's attention. Due to the communication being so appalling on this, I must admit my own panic initially when hearing the news. And I can recall the awful situation that Jade Goody endured whilst suffering from cervical cancer, who was a former Big Brother celebrity, for those who don't know. She had a horrendous time from not catching it early enough; she didn't go to her screenings. And as result she lost—oh, it makes me sad—her life, and left behind her two young boys. It was quite emotive. Sorry, I don't mean to cry, but it was quite an emotive campaign and period of time, and what happened from that, the result, was that many, many women, who hadn't even thought about it—it hadn't even been on their radar—came forward and were tested. It was very traumatising at the time, and, obviously, it still rings true. But she was very brave, and used her celebrity status for good, taking everyone on that journey with her until her sad death. It shook a lot of women into action, and the take-up for cervical smears increased substantially. The publicity campaign that followed was a huge success, and I ask that this Welsh Government look at doing something similar.

You need to conclude now.

—to improve life chances for women who develop cervical cancer, and I fear that this extension of two years will not contribute towards saving more lives. There's still so much more to be done.

I will reiterate now, Deputy Presiding Officer, the calls I made last week to the First Minister and this Government, and I strongly urge them, and Public Health Wales, to launch a public awareness campaign to help inform our Welsh citizens of the significant developments that have occurred. We need to actively encourage more people to come forward for a cervical screening than have done recently. These new changes will not work and not be effective unless everyone now comes forward for a new screening with this new screening technology. Thank you very much.

Thank you for the opportunity to make a brief contribution to this debate. And, firstly, let me say how much I sympathise with all those people, the many, many thousands, who have spoken about their deep concerns about the change in the cervical cancer screening regime. Screening has, of course, become a valuable part of the preventative armoury when it comes to women's health, and many, many lives have been saved through early diagnosis stemming from the screening programme. And the sudden announcement that three-year tests would become five left so many people distressed and worried. And my own reaction, I must say, was one of incredulity: could this really be the result of the current pressures on the NHS, another effect of systems under strain?

But, in trying to learn more then about the change, what became apparent is that we are talking not about a downgrading of this invaluable protective health measure, but, in fact, a serious failure to communicate change that is in fact the right change, and one we should celebrate, in fact, as a step forward in preventative healthcare. I'm immensely grateful to those organisations, Cancer Research UK and Jo's Cervical Cancer Trust in particular, for stepping in with explanations of why this is a positive change, why advancements in technology means testing for the HPV virus, which causes the vast majority of cervical cancers, allows for earlier identification of what could ultimately lead to increased risk, early enough in fact to allow five years between testing episodes if no evidence of HPV is found. In the past, screening tested for changes in cells, the beginning of cancer; now we can find earlier signs of what might eventually lead to that and so allow for more timely intervention.

Now, can I draw the attention of Members to the statement of opinion I've tabled this week, following discussion with Jo's Cervical Cancer Trust, noting that this week is Cervical Cancer Prevention Week, and expressing again how vital screening is? The statement expresses regret that recent changes to the cervical screening programme—the way they were communicated—have caused anxiety and confusion, and urges Ministers and Public Health Wales to prioritise restoring confidence in the programme through clear and direct communication to answer the concerns that so many have. Now, I've written to the health Minister the week before last, I think, to ask for that direct communication to happen. It has to happen. The handling of this change by Welsh Government and its agencies has caused a great amount of anxiety, and it's up to Government and its agencies to put that right.

On 4 January, Public Health Wales announced this important enhancement to the cervical screening service. Whilst it was disappointing that they failed to provide some context as to why this was an improvement, rather than a reduction in service, hindsight is a wonderful thing. And I can see why a change that was introduced nearly two years ago in England and Scotland was not deemed to be controversial in any way. This was following what the experts had told us was the best way of approaching this particular service. Clearly, it's entirely to be regretted that over 30,000 people were sufficiently exercised by what they were persuaded was a cut in service, rather than an enhancement, to sign this petition. But, really, I don't think that persisting with this inaccuracy is at all helpful.

This debate takes place on the afternoon when we've all had the opportunity to ask questions of our health Minister. So, we have fresh in our minds the areas of health provision where we can all agree we need to do better, whether that's eating disorders, ADHD, hearing loss, social prescribing, or, earlier, I attended a meeting about ovarian cancer, which was hosted by Mark Isherwood. On all these things we need to do better, and nobody in the Senedd would disagree with that. So, I have to just repeat that no change is not an option for us. It is our duty to ensure that we are constantly reshaping services to better meet the needs of our population, and that we are constantly delivering best value with limited resources. I was born in the era where people routinely had their tonsils and adenoids removed when they were aged seven, and how traumatic was that for a child to be removed from their parents for something that was proved to be a completely pointless intervention, unless there were very particular issues.

So, as with COVID, we need to follow the latest scientific evidence, and the experts tell us really clearly that HPV is what causes 99.7 per cent of cervical cancers. That's why we offer all teenagers the HPV vaccine, so that the HPV virus is going to be put out of business and no longer able to cause cervical cancers in the future, once the people who've benefited from the vaccine have grown up. So, we have to recognise that the cervical screen has changed substantially. It's much more sensitive, much more accurate and it's now checking first for the presence of HPV. And by reducing the period of time when women are screened, it makes it possible to free up time to concentrate on that small minority of the female population who are causes for concern, where they have HPV present in their cells and can be benefiting from even better screens to ensure that, were they to develop cervical cancer, that will be picked up earlier.

I spent many, many years of my life, before I became a Senedd Member, trying to help drive up cervical cancer screening rates. So, I find it extremely disappointing that, despite all the evidence presented by Cancer Research UK and Jo's Cervical Cancer Trust, still Laura Jones decided she was going to put out a statement of opinion about the inaccurate information that people had been given. This simply won't do. Yes, this week is Cervical Screening Awareness Week, and a very important week it is too, because the people we need to focus on are the people who never turn up to have a cancer screen. The sort of people that we're talking about are people who have caring responsibilities and have nobody to leave their child with in order to go for a screen, who are in zero-hours work and therefore are unable to take time out from their work in order to go for their screening appointment.

The Member must conclude now.

Okay. I'd like to hear from the Minister how that compares with the bowel screening that takes place in the over-60s, because obviously once again this is something that takes place in people's homes, they don't need to go for an appointment, they don't need to travel to see the nurse who's going to do the screen. This is a very important way of ensuring that cervical cancer is something that is so rare as to be almost non-existent.

As we mark Cervical Cancer Prevention Week, I'd like to make a general point at the outset, and that is that girls don't always get taught enough about their bodies—neither do boys, of course. A mix of embarrassment, a lack of understanding, even body shaming, can coalesce from when girls are really quite young, and those factors surely contribute to the fact that one in three women fail to attend their cervical screening appointment when they're invited. We've heard already in the debate about the thousands of women who'll be told every year that they have cervical cell changes, so surely we have to find better ways of talking about these issues and normalising the process of smear tests.

Specifically on this petition, the changes to routine smear tests, it's already been said that they were communicated very poorly, and that did cause avoidable anxiety. The explanation that we have been given by Public Health Wales has set many minds at rest, but since that change was announced I've been contacted by women who are still nervous. I wanted to raise those concerns here so that I could get some constructive answers for them from the Minister. Some constituents have raised the fact—it's already been rehearsed—that a HPV infection can clear within one or two years, meaning that an infection could have cleared by the time a test is taken. Those constituents have queried how someone looking at the results could then know whether the infection has caused cellular changes if they're not looking for those changes. Another constituent was diagnosed with stage 1 cancer at age 30 in 2021 and the cancer was caught during her three-year smear test. She's worried that, had she waited an additional two years, the cancer could have progressed far more and potentially affected her fertility or something far graver.

Now, as I've said, the new test should work very well for most of those who've had the HPV vaccine, which is obviously something to be very much welcomed, because that will have reduced the incidence of abnormal cell changes. Not everyone will have been offered that vaccine, and I know that women, particularly in their 30s, will have missed out on that opportunity because that's true for me as well. So, I'd equally like to hear more about what could be done to put women's minds at rest about that. A further worry felt by some of my constituents concerns women who could develop cervical cancer that isn't linked to HPV. They would presumably be left without screening, so what provision, please, could be made for them? I've raised these concerns in order to get clarity for those constituents who are still feeling uneasy about this change.

Diolch to Jack as Chair of the Petitions Committee for making sure this debate could take place at such short notice.

Cervical screening isn't a pleasant experience to say the least, and I'm sure I'm not the only woman in Wales to have put off or dreaded attending a screening appointment, but we also understand that cervical screening is one of the most important appointments for us to attend as women and, without a doubt, saves lives. The scientific strides that have been made to make sure that the test for HPV is more accurate is fantastic news and should be celebrated. But, the way in which the announcement was made was appalling and left many women feeling anxious, frustrated and confused. For this petition to reach over 30,000 signatures over the space of a couple of days is testament to the strength of feeling out there. Although the announcement was followed by the apology, which was far more informative, many women still feel aggrieved, and I'm one of them.

It has taken generations and generations of women to fight to have control over their own bodies. Women should have the right to decide when they'd like to attend their screening appointment, be it every three years or five years, or anywhere in between, regardless of the improved test. For many women, life just gets in the way, be it due to work or childcare. And I think, if we're being honest with ourselves, more often than not, we let life get in the way. We know that three years between screening appointments then becomes more like four or five. If we are to see a change from three to five years, then for some women this could easily become up to 10 years.

Cervical screening appointments are, first and foremost, to detect HPV, but we all know that when you attend the all-important smear test, the test itself isn't the only thing that we discuss, it's the whole well-being package. Being at our most vulnerable during the smear test, we sometimes feel more able to have the more uncomfortable discussions that are usually left on the back burner. For some women, such as those experiencing domestic abuse, their cervical screening appointment could be the only time they're able to see a healthcare professional alone. These appointments aren't just about screening for HPV, they're about the wider package of checks and care available to them. To increase the duration between these appointments would be detrimental to women and their well-being. Let's acknowledge the huge scientific strides that we have made, but not take a step back on women's right to decide, especially when it comes to their well-being.

I call on the Minister for Health and Social Services, Eluned Morgan.

Diolch yn fawr. Thank you for the opportunity to respond to the debate today. I know that it has really produced some very strong responses from across our communities, and the tone and the passion that we've seen in the debate this afternoon demonstrates that this has touched many, many people. So, I would like to thank people for engaging in the conversation, but clearly there is a need to learn some lessons here.

As you've all pointed out, this follows a petition calling on the Welsh Government to reinstate cervical screening to every three years. This was announced by Public Health Wales on 4 January and the idea was to extend the routine screening interval for people aged 25 to 49 from three to five years if high-risk HPV is not found in their cervical screening test. And that will bring the screening interval into line with those aged 50 to 64.

Many this afternoon have pointed out the calamitous way in which this was communicated. Public Health Wales has apologised and I met with them earlier this week, where they were at pains to tell me that they have learned the lessons, that they understand the anger and the concern that people felt because of their failure to communicate in an adequate way. And it is important, I think, that Public Health Wales is reviewing its approach now to communicating public health messages following that feedback.

It's important to note that the interval change will not apply to those who are found to have high-risk HPV, with or without cell changes, as they will be offered annual screening and further tests as necessary. And that's the point, that's what we're doing here is really focusing on those people who are more at risk. This change is fully supported, as many have pointed out today, by the main cancer charities, and I've got to emphasise that this has not been made to save resources. Investing in preventative services, such as screening, and detecting cancers at earlier stages makes them easier and more cost-effective to treat.

The change has also not been made due to the success of the HPV vaccination programme in schools, although that has been successful, and I was asked by Jack what the rates are. The rates last week in terms of the uptake of vaccine in year 8, which is 12 to 13-year-olds, was around 71 per cent. So, far fewer than we'd hoped, but there will be a catch-up immunisation programme that we'll be looking to roll out—obviously it's a very disruptive year in our schools. And those people who've had the vaccination, they're only now entering the age cohort for the screening programme, although it's expected that in future the combination of vaccination and screening should see cervical cancers decline significantly in the near future.

Now, I understand that many people are concerned that extending the interval between screenings will lead to missing cases of cervical cancer. But I'd like to assure people that HPV causes changes to the cells very slowly over several years, and that means that if there were to be cellular changes, they could be identified early on still in the next screening process. Screening more often than five years after a negative HPV result would be too early usually for any changes to the cells to come to the fore. So, the screening would not be beneficial and it could also give an incorrect reassurance to people. I'm pleased that Wales has led the way, and that we were the first nation in the UK to introduce those screens for high-risk HPV back in 2018. Scotland and England have now introduced those same tests for HPV, and in Scotland, the interval between screenings was extended some time ago, in March 2020.

Undoing that change to the interval for those at low risk would be a retrograde step. I acknowledge fully that more regular screening feels as though it would provide that additional reassurance, but, for those low-risk individuals, it doesn't provide the benefits that they would want to see. Extending the interval for those at low risk means that the screening programme can then focus on those high-risk individuals, who will be monitored more closely than in the past. We have to ensure that health services follow the science, and that they are provided only when they provide genuine benefit, and when there is a clinical need for them. So, that is the response to Buffy's comment about using this to talk about other health issues. It's very important that you are careful about how you use clinical interventions. We have to decrease possible harm in terms of providing those unnecessary interventions. Screening programmes need to evolve in response to cancer and developments in science. Just to respond to Jenny Rathbone—.

She was asking about the pilot in England. We are watching the pilot in England with interest. We know that we've seen a better response in terms of bowel screening since people have been sent out a FIT test. We've sen an increase in people using that from 60 per cent to 65 per cent. We want to know whether that will be the response in relation to cervical screening for those particular areas where people are not coming forward. So, we want to see that the evidence is safe and effective before we think about introducing that into Wales.

Introducing those tests for HPV will enable us to make more—

Minister, you will have to come to an end now.

Okay. Thank you very much. This should be a good news story for Wales. We can prevent more cases of cancer and detect those that are developing earlier on in the process. It's important to note, as many have done, that a quarter of those who are invited for a screening don't attend their appointments. So, if we can use this issue that we have seen, and the concerns that people have expressed, we do need to take this opportunity as a chance to tell people to come forward for their screening care appointments, and to encourage more people to take that opportunity. Thank you very much.

I call on Jack Sargeant to reply to this debate.

Diolch yn fawr, Deputy Presiding Officer. Diolch, Weinidog, for your response to today's debate, in particular for setting out some of the science behind the decision by Public Health Wales and answering some of the questions from Members. And, of course, thanks to Members.

I do think that it's right to say that, unfortunately, the outcome of today will not always be satisfactory to some. There will still be thousands of women out there across Wales who have been left feeling let down. They have been left feeling confused, and of course, they will still be frustrated by the events of the last few weeks. So, I do feel that it's right, and that it's time, for Government, for officials, and for the health service, to not only reflect and learn lessons from the process that has happened, but also to think about how we can rebuild the trust lost to ensure that failure of this magnitude does not happen again.

Deputy Presiding Officer, I have been reflecting on how the petitions process is a vehicle to bring forward issues that are important to people across Wales. It does provide opportunities to raise awareness, highlight challenges and strive for positive change. It brings these matters to the heart of our democracy and ensures that citizens' voices are heard.

I think that we heard from all Members right across the Senedd Chamber today on the importance of screening, the importance of education, the importance of early diagnosis. We heard Laura Anne Jones specifically call once again for a public awareness campaign. I feel she is absolutely right to call for that, and will join her in those calls. We heard Members refer to the cancer charities, Jo's Cervical Cancer Trust and Cancer Research UK, who welcomed the news, but of course we have to do everything we possibly can to spread this message to women across Wales.

As Buffy Williams rightly reminded us, it has taken generations and generations of women to fight to have control of their bodies, and they should not, and we should not, then allow a step to be taken back. Buffy Williams is absolutely right when she says that, and I do commend her for that. And the very real story that life sometimes gets in the way—we do have to remember this when we make decisions on public health. So, I do feel, although there has been a debate today and I'm pleased that the Senedd Petitions Committee could facilitate this, that there is clear work that needs to go on to convince people and the women of Wales that this is the decision that needs to be taken forward. I look forward to seeing that happen in the future.

On behalf of the committee, I'd like to thank Joanne Stroud and all of those who have supported this petition, and I thank the Minister and all Members for their contributions today. Thank you very much.

The proposal is to note the petition. Does any Member object? There is no objection, and therefore the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

The next item on the agenda is the Welsh Conservatives debate on COVID restrictions. I call on Russell George to move the motion,

Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. I move the motion this afternoon in the name of my colleague Darren Millar. This motion was of course tabled at the back end of last week, just before the Government made its announcement on the easing of restrictions. I'm always pleased when the Welsh Government pays heed to our motions and I'm glad that the Welsh Government has listened to calls from ourselves and from others in terms of outlining a road map for easing restrictions. And whether you call—. I can see the Minister laughing, but I'm pleased, Minister; I'm being positive here. I'm welcoming the fact that you've heeded our calls.

Russell, will you take an intervention? I've got Huw Irranca-Davies wanting to make an intervention.

I will, Deputy Llywydd.

Russell, thanks very much for taking that intervention. I, like many people, follow the Welsh Conservatives' social media, and the fact you're taking credit for this—. Fair play to you. But one person noticed, in response to that, that it was the equivalent of shouting, for 25 minutes consistently, from row Z in the stands, 'Give the ball to Shane, give the the ball to Shane' and then Biggar kicks the drop goal to win in the final minute, and you pat yourself on the back and say 'Well done'. He wasn't the only one, Russell.

Thanks, Huw. I'm glad that you do follow and take an interest in the Welsh Conservatives' social media. I'm pleased to hear that. I think what I'll outline, perhaps, during the course of this debate, is not only that we're patting ourselves on the back for the Welsh Government taking heed to our calls, but why we questioned why the restrictions were in place in the very first place. I was going to say, Huw, as well, that I congratulate the Welsh Government on having a road map out of restrictions. This is always important. Whether you call it a plan or a road map, I don't particularly mind what you call it, but the public and businesses need to know where the end game is when restrictions are brought into place.

With some of these regulations, Huw, and others, and the Minister, I would say that there are many parts to these regulations that were brought in on Boxing Day that we support. Some of them were balanced. Some of them were proportionate. So, we're not suggesting at all that we disagree with all the regulations that were put in place. What we are saying is that after restrictions are put in place, and after the event, we have to scrutinise and we have to look at what was balanced and what was sensible. That's why we're particularly looking at some of the confusing and contradictory regulations that were part of these regulations that were brought in on Boxing Day.

I think we're all aware—it's been said in the Chamber—of the issue in Caerphilly rugby club, where 50 people were allowed outside to watch a rugby match, but 140 were allowed in the clubhouse on tables of six, to watch the game on streaming. So, we have to question, don't we? Is it not right to question restrictions that limit particularly outdoor activity? And the rule of six, of course, that was brought in during the busiest period of the year for hospitality was business breaking, I'm afraid, for many, sadly. Many of these businesses use this period—as we all know, they use the revenue to carry them through the quieter months ahead. I remember back to last Christmas when we saw much retail shutdown just a few days before Christmas Day.

In Wales, I do not think the business package has been enough. And that's not just me stating that, or Welsh Conservatives; this is the view of businesses across Wales. The chief executive officer of Creative Hospitality Group said this—and I'm quoting him here:

'From my own business perspective, Creative Hospitality Group may be entitled to £90,000 across the nine weeks. This won’t even cover my staff wage, rent and loan repayment costs for a single week. We need more support, we need more clarity and most importantly we need the evidence that shows why our sector has been targeted so harshly.'

We've also heard from the chief executive of the Welsh beer association, who's estimated that on average, each pub across Wales will lose £16,000 each due to the current restrictions, which they won't recover; that's the important point here. Welsh businesses have again been let down by the lack of support from Welsh Government. If you're bringing forward restrictions, you've got to bring forward the right support for businesses. And of course, I say this in the context where businesses in the English economy continue to open freely.

When you bring forward restrictions, these are always balances that have to be taken into account. What I'm saying and what we're saying as Welsh Conservatives today is that the Welsh Government on this occasion got that balance wrong. You've got to think, when restrictions are brought in, about the consequences to businesses, especially along the border. Many people in north Wales go across the border for hospitality, and in south Wales they go into other parts of England. In my own constituency, they just travel a few minutes up the road for hospitality in Shrewsbury and into Shropshire. So, again, you've got to think about the consequences that these restrictions are having on businesses when you're making those balanced choices.

The Government has said that they have been following the science and advice on these restrictions, but we know that advice from University College London submitted to SAGE in December suggested that people were twice as likely to catch COVID whilst out shopping compared to being in a pub or a cinema where no restrictions were in place. I also note that in Scotland, the national clinical director said, just last week I think it was, that Scotland's restrictions on hospitality and sporting events had made little difference to Scotland's coronavirus case numbers compared to the approach taken in England. Of course, again, balances have to be taken into account, but on this occasion, the Welsh Government got the balance wrong.

I have selected the amendment to the motion. I call on the Deputy Minister for Arts and Sport to formally move the amendment, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths. Dawn Bowden.

Formally.

Thank you. Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I have brief comments today. It's clear that this motion is dated. It's calling for a series of things that are already happening, so we will be abstaining today. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn't it? And listening to Russell George there passing judgment on something several weeks after the evidence that was presented to us on the threats that the scientists that had advised the Government thought that we faced at that point, and they came to conclusions based on what they had in front of them at that time—. And the suggestion perhaps that Wales shouldn't have taken steps because England was taking a more cavalier approach is strange to me. It was about protecting and safeguarding the people and health service of Wales. That is the task for the Welsh Government, and, in general, people will find it very difficult to take any lessons from the party of parties at Downing Street—

Russ, did you want to intervene?

—in terms of our response to COVID.

Rhun, will you take an intervention?

I'm happy to take an intervention.

Thank you, Rhun. I take your point, absolutely, about having views in hindsight, but, as Welsh Conservatives, I hope you would agree as well that we don't want to have views in hindsight on these regulations; we want to be able to vote on them when they come forward. And there's no reason why that cannot happen now. With the virtual meetings, that can be easily be brought forward. It could have been brought forward over the Christmas period. So, please, take that into account. We don't want to be talking about these in hindsight; we'd have been able to put our thoughts very publicly in the Senedd should these regulations have been brought forward at the time they were brought in.

And that is a point I've made myself: it's important for democracy that we get things right and do things in the right order. But to argue now that what was evidenced properly at the time was wrong is a very good example of the misuse of hindsight, I think.

We will be voting for the Government's amendment because all it does, I think, is set out the process of lifting those restrictions that has already been announced and has started to be implemented indeed.

I think it's worth outlining once again the principles that I and fellow Members of Plaid Cymru have been led by over the past two years. We need those restrictions and regulations in place that are stringent enough to respond to the health risks that we face, but we also need to ensure that there aren't more restrictions than are needed in place because of the impact that they have on well-being, on mental health, on the economy, on hospitality, and so on. I have encouraged the Government to push the envelope in terms of what can be allowed and the normalcy that we all are craving. A week ago, before this motion was introduced, I was calling on the Minister to focus on what we were hoping were very hopeful signs in the statistics—it turned out that they were very promising—and to be able to prepare to lift these restrictions as soon as possible. And I think the Welsh Government has done just that on this occasion.

Rhun, can you bear with me a second, please? Janet, you've got your hand up. Do you want an intervention? Rhun, are you prepared to take another intervention?

Of course.

Thank you. Rhun, I'm baffled, because as far as I'm aware and the argument we have made as the Welsh Conservatives is that we hadn't seen a technical advisory cell at the time—we didn't see any evidence at the time. So, please put on record the evidence that was there that, somehow, we as elected Members have not been made aware of.

Well, I think from my experience and from the experience of colleagues of yours, I know there has been open dialogue that you can have with advisers to Government, and we have it through health committee and so on. Plus, we were talking about a global wave and global evidence of an impending wave of a new variant that we knew nothing about, that you might think you know everything about now, Janet, but you didn't at that time. And this was a response to how to keep safe, and I'm convinced that it was the right thing to do and I think it's borne out also in the statistics on the number of hospitalisations and so on that we've seen in Wales. Nobody wants any of these regulations; let's remind ourselves of that. But at times, throughout the past two years, measures have had to be put in place, and I believe that these were reasonable measures to have been put in place in response to the threat that I certainly was clear was being communicated to us in different ways, although, absolutely, I agree that we need to be voting on them as close to the time of implementation—ideally before their implementation, of course, though, sometimes, responses from Government have to be very, very quick.

I will bring my comments to a conclusion by looking ahead. We need to adhere to the same principles that I've mentioned about doing enough but not too much. In terms of the self-isolation time: bring it down as much as possible, but only when the evidence allows that to be done safely, and I hope that that can happen soon, of course. We have to remember that we are still living in a time of pandemic and that strengthening those elements, perhaps where the Government has been too slow to take action, is more important than ever—ensuring that we ventilate so that any future waves don't have a major impact, and that we have that ventilation guidance in schools and so on. We are clearly in a more promising position now, and the right decision has been made to lift certain restrictions, but we have to be vigilant still. We need to continue to prepare, we need to put preventative steps in place and respond quickly and appropriately to a changing situation. That is what will enable us to be as resilient as possible in facing future problems.

I'm pleased to have the opportunity to contribute in this important debate, as we've endured yet another round of damaging and senseless restrictions.

The First Minister and the health Minister's approach on messaging since the omicron variant arrived in Wales has been chaotic and contradictory. It has increased fear and it could be argued that it was a political decision in some respects. Most worryingly, most of these decisions didn't seem to be based on science, with a quite obvious lack of evidence to back up any decisions being made. There is a fine balance when weighing up the balance of harms, when we're making these tough decisions and they are tough decisions—everyone recognises that. But when they are decisions with such huge implications on lives and livelihoods, some degree of explanation coupled with evidence is needed to explain why you are, in some cases, destroying someone's business by taking a specific decision.

Once again, the immediate reaction of this Welsh Government to the new variant was to hastily shut businesses and take away freedoms. It comes as no surprise to me as we have a First Minister who has spent his career theorising about socialism instead of running a business or having to worry about paying staff. The decision to move back to level 2 forced outdoor spectator sports events to close their doors once again to fans, and other community sports events and gatherings were referred to as 'superspreader events', despite no evidence being presented, which understandably created outrage. These restrictions prevented more than 50 people partaking in sports outdoors, yet the same restrictions allowed for more than 50 people to be present in an indoor environment, providing that they are seated, where ventilation would be far lower. It is no wonder that people were angry and fed up with these nonsensical restrictions on our lives.

Deputy Presiding Officer, I couldn't understand why the Welsh Government refused to publish the evidence behind their decision, however seeing the data for myself and looking across at how England fared without restrictions, I can now see why. Welsh people and businesses cannot plan for the future or live their lives while the Welsh Government continues to enforce draconian—

Laura, will you take an intervention?

[Inaudible.]—without releasing any evidence. Yes, I will.

Huw Irranca-Davies.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd.

Another rugby one?

Well, no, actually, because, Laura, we're all fed up to the back teeth with the measures in response to COVID. Every one of us is, because of the impact on our families, on businesses and so on. But one of the lessons, wouldn't you agree, that we learnt from earlier waves of this pandemic is of the need to proceed with caution and also to proceed, I have to say, early to take interventions, in order to prevent worse outcomes? And can I just refer you to the Office for National Statistics survey data for last week, which shows that the prevalence now amongst Welsh communities is one in 25, compared to one in 20 across England and the rest of the UK? If that has saved pressures on the NHS, saved lives, and now allows us to open businesses earlier, is that, in hindsight, something that even with the difficulty of this, might be well worth something, that was not nonsensical, but, actually, was a fine judgment and probably the right one?

No, I do take that these things are a fine judgment, as I outlined earlier, and it is difficult—they are difficult decisions, balancing the harms. But it was clear from the figures, Huw, that the hospitalisations were down and the figures were coming that way. If you looked at the evidence of what's happening in London with the same variant, and in South Africa, there was a clear trend of what was probably going to happen, which, actually, is now what we're seeing has happened.

The hospitality sector has been under siege constantly from this Welsh Government, with a lack of support and the reintroduction of this rule of six. An estimated 86,000 jobs have been lost from the cultural night-time industry, and these new measures had an average cost to businesses of £45,000 over the festive period.

Research in December from the University College London demonstrated that people were twice as likely to catch COVID while shopping compared to being in a pub or cinema. Restrictions cannot be introduced just for the sake of it, and in light of the omicron variant being far milder, alongside the advancement of the roll-out of the booster programme, I do have to question the rationale behind the Welsh Government's decisions, especially in the continued absence of evidence.

While I am pleased that the Welsh Government has listened to the Welsh Conservatives, as Russell said earlier, and has heeded our calls to ease restrictions, we are still having to wait weeks for these changes, all because Mark Drakeford wants to save face and not call any u-turn. No consideration has been given at all to mental health and well-being, and to our Welsh economy. It is time we look to the future and start rebuilding our lives and the Welsh economy. We need a detailed road map to recovery now, not the constant insecurity that this Welsh Government has delivered throughout the pandemic.

We need to plan to learn to live with COVID, we need to keep children in schools and support them to get back on track. We need to scrap COVID passports, and we need to support our NHS and staff on clearing the backlog of waiting lists. The recovery in Wales is going to take time, and I appreciate that, but the Welsh Government needs to realise that it is time to live with COVID and focus on securing our economic future. If there is evidence stating that we need certain restrictions, fine, but this Welsh Government are clearly wrong with these latest restrictions.

It is good to see things changing finally. I really hope that we will hear more tomorrow on masks in classrooms and more restrictions being lifted sooner. Quite simply, it's time to try to start providing reassurances rather than more threats of job-crushing restrictions. We need to learn to live with COVID. This was an important debate to have today still, even though, in a way, it's outdated. It would be good to be able to debate restrictions and vote on them before they happen in the future. Thank you.

The Welsh Labour Government's most recent restrictions have been controversial, contradictory and full of loopholes that have caused untold damage to the economy of our country, as well as our vital hospitality industry, individuals, businesses and organisations, who have all been hit hard by these sets of restrictions. After weeks of Welsh Conservative calls to ease these restrictions, and, as Huw Irranca said, even if it was from upper 12 in the millennium stadium, I'm pleased that the Cabinet of the Welsh Labour Government finally put a plan in place on 14 January. However, we need more than this and greater certainty going forward.

The Welsh Labour Government deterred the public from visiting our hospitality venues in the run-up to Christmas, yet it provided pitiful support. Pubs and restaurants spent thousands and thousands of pounds on food and were well stocked for the festive period, much of which has been wasted at a cost to the wider supply chain. What is all the more hard for those individuals and businesses caught up in these restrictions is to learn that the Welsh Labour Government is still sitting on a war chest of cash, cash meant to be there to support our local businesses and the connecting industries hit by these restrictions. Out of the £500 million war chest, only £120 million has been made available for businesses. This figure is grossly inadequate, considering the Welsh Government has brought in restrictions at a time when these businesses are traditionally busy.

During Christmas and the new year period, millions of pounds flew out of Wales, with individuals travelling to England to enjoy the Christmas festivities and new year celebrations, all at a time when some businesses in Wales, such as nightclubs, were shut and others with tough restrictions. These restrictions were brought in on doomsday predictions, and all they have done is spell potential doom for the economy of our country. It is now time to learn to live with COVID, as the UK Government have set out today, as we start to return to normal. And I hope that the Minister will set out clearly the Welsh Government's route back to pre-pandemic times.

Because of the success of the booster jab roll-out, 90 per cent fewer patients have been admitted to UK hospitals. In Wales, two thirds of people have had their booster jabs, highlighting that, because of the tireless efforts of NHS staff, GPs and pharmacists and a public willingness, Wales should now be turning the corner on restrictions, and it's only right to commend the Welsh Government on the roll-out of the booster jabs. COVID has cost many lives and my heart goes out to all those people who have lost loved ones and friends. We must learn from the mistakes of the pandemic. We must have a specific COVID inquiry in Wales and I think the UK Government should change its position here and encourage Wales and the First Minister to have our own public inquiry here in Wales.

I wish to refer Members to my own declaration of interest form. Well, I certainly welcome the update that's now been provided to the technical advice, with the modelling appearing more positively to show that the peak of this omicron wave could now be behind us. And I think we all welcome that. With the total number of patients in hospital falling and the total number of admissions to hospitals decreasing for more than a week, now is the time that I think the Welsh Government needs to look more proactively to be looking to bring forward a long-term recovery road map.

Sadly, Wales still remains an outlier when it comes to public health policy. Despite the detailed scientific evidence from South Africa, it does remain a central concern of many businesses that Welsh Government Ministers, in their opinion, have overreacted to omicron, and this has caused significant pain to families and much anguish to our businesses. The currently proposed timeline means that our indoor hospitality businesses will have another two weeks of restrictions, driving the Welsh pound across the border to England, and we all know of instances where this happened on new year's eve.

The chief executive of the Welsh Beer and Pub Association has estimated that, on average, pubs have lost £16,000 each over the current period of restrictions. I went to the hairdressers the other day and there were two chairs out of action, with tape on, because of the 2m distancing. And believe me, the owner of the hairdressing salon was distraught when she told me how much an hour she was losing on those two chairs.

Given the research from University College London, submitted to SAGE in December, suggesting that people were twice as likely to catch COVID whilst out shopping, compared to being in a pub or a cinema, when no restrictions were in place, will the Welsh Government apologise now to the hospitality industry for getting it wrong with the rule of six restriction? And why on earth didn't the First Minister last week drop the 2m ruling so that businesses can actually maximise the income that they can achieve? A wave of cancellations continues to bite into the viability of our hospitality and tourism sectors. Now, whilst it is understandable that consumer behaviour has changed, the unprecedented strain felt by businesses is actually putting their own livelihoods, their own mental health and well-being, and employment opportunities for some, at a huge risk.

In conversations with many local businesses, it is apparent that clarity is still needed as to why they are required to provide evidence of a 50 per cent reduction in income, when we know that a far smaller reduction can be hugely detrimental. This is especially the case when one considers that the festive period can account to around 20 per cent of a business's annual turnover. There are also legitimate concerns from small self-catering accommodation owners about their eligibility, with the Welsh Government having stopped local authorities from having discretion to give any grants to self-catering businesses that accommodate 29 people or less, and I'm glad that the First Minister took that point I raised yesterday seriously and he's going to look at that. I would also ask whether you would look to make more money available for the businesses that have suffered due to their omicron response, particularly as the UK Government provided an additional £270 million in December, which was on top of the amount announced at the autumn budget.

Janet, I have an intervention request. Will you take one?

Yes, of course, yes.

Mabon.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Janet is the third speaker from the Conservatives to talk about learning to live with this disease. What level of deaths is acceptable to you?

At the end of the day, we all regret any single death, Mabon. But we have to realise now that, in line with other countries—. If you look at England and what they're doing, they're able to keep the economy going whilst also protecting people's lives. So, we have to stop wanting to do things differently, just because it's seen to be better. There's been no advice or evidence at the time that these restrictions were brought in, and I actually concur with my colleagues that we should have had a say on this. We could have done it on Zoom over the Christmas period. But I'm afraid all this is now in retrospect.

With over 1.8 million boosters and third doses having been administered in Wales, now is the time to boost the confidence of businesses and the public after two years of restrictions. I have residents asking me what has been the point of these vaccines—

You need to conclude now, Janet.

—when the Welsh Government still wants to keep in place draconian measures, taking our freedoms and our liberties. I ask the First Minister to, actually, in his next announcement, be more brave and allow the people of Wales to go about their own lives. Thank you. Diolch.

I call on the Deputy Minister, Dawn Bowden.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm pleased to be able to respond today to this debate, and would say at the outset that the Welsh Government rejects the overall motion that's before us today. But I am also delighted to see that the latest evidence supports our plan to move to alert level 0, as set out in our amendment. From a personal point of view, I'm particularly looking forward to seeing sporting events return in the normal way, and, as Ministers have made clear throughout our engagement with the sectors affected, nobody in Welsh Government wants to hold on to pandemic protections for any longer than they are necessary, and it is a cause for shame that the Welsh Conservatives continually suggest otherwise. Their arguments often slip into suggestions that there are some ulterior motives driving decisions in Wales, which is indicative of their drift to a paranoid, negative and increasingly irrelevant form of right-wing politics, and the contribution from Laura Jones this afternoon absolutely typified that.

Llywydd, that poor judgment is leading them to talk down the responsible sacrifices made by the people of Wales in recent weeks. Prior to Christmas, Welsh Government, along with all other Governments of the UK, was presented with very worrying evidence about the spread and the speed of infections of the new omicron variant surging through our communities. That evidence was available through TAC and SAGE reports that are regularly published on the Welsh Government website and that accompanied the announcements that were made at the time. In fact, Janet Finch-Saunders, in her contribution, referred to the TAC and SAGE advice when she referred to the fact that the infection rates are coming down now. That's the same TAC advice and SAGE reports, Janet, that we were using to make the decisions on restrictions back in December.

The public health consensus, not just—

Deputy Minister, will you take an intervention?

Go on.

Janet.

The point I have made is, at the time, we were not given any evidence or made aware—. Rhun earlier mentioned about us meeting with public health officials. We did meet with public health officials—last week. This is not satisfactory, and we should have been far more involved in this. We should have had a vote on it over the Christmas period. There was no excuse, because we could have done it by virtual means, and I think lessons do need to be learnt by the Welsh Government. Maybe your constituents, Dawn, are not up in arms about how you value this, but I can tell you the rest of us here—

Janet, you've made your speech; this is an intervention. So, you're asking a question of her, the Deputy Minister.

Okay, well the residents in Aberconwy are not happy at all.

The answer is what I've already given. The TAC advice and the SAGE advice were available at the time that we made those decisions. As I said, the public health consensus, not just in Wales but across the UK, was that it was unlikely that the booster programme alone would prevent a significant burden of direct COVID-related harm in the period immediately after Christmas and we needed to do more as we ramped up the vaccination and booster programme. In fact, the evidence that we had at that time was telling us that the restrictions that we should introduce should go further than the alert level 2 that we introduced. It was suggesting to us—in fact, recommending to us—that we should consider alert level 4. The reason we couldn't go to alert level 4 was because the UK Government wouldn't allow the funding of a furlough scheme required for us to be able to implement alert level 4, because, as we know, the UK Government only offer levels of support when it's needed in England and not when it's needed in other, devolved nations.

The introduction of protective measures at alert level 2 in December helped us to do just that. It helped flatten the curve of infections and it gave us more time to vaccinate people, while at the same time keeping as many businesses as possible open and preventing the NHS from becoming overwhelmed.

Deputy Minister, will you take another intervention?

I'm not taking any more interventions, Dirprwy Lywydd.

So, the argument that the actions taken by the people of Wales had no impact on the transmission of omicron is not only offensive, but it is not borne out by the facts. Indeed, we now see that the latest ONS figures show that the rate of infections in Wales is much lower than England, with Wales infection rates currently standing at 3.7 per cent, compared to 5.7 per cent in England, and that is despite the fact that, unlike England, we count those who've been reinfected in our statistics. So, as Huw Irranca-Davies said in his intervention, that means that in Wales we've seen one in 25 infected, compared to one in 20 in England. So, please, let's just nail down this nonsense that measures that we've taken here have no effect on our infection rates.

Llywydd, despite good news today on infection rates—

Excuse me a second. It's virtual, so—. Darren Millar's asking, and the Minister has already indicated she's not taking any more interventions.

No, I'm not taking any further interventions, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm not taking any further interventions, no.

Sorry, Deputy Minister.

Llywydd, despite the good news today on infection rates, families have still lost loved ones to COVID in recent weeks, and people in every community across Wales have continued to make difficult sacrifices to help keep themselves and their loved ones safe. Their efforts have ensured that Wales is emerging from this omicron wave in a stronger position. And all the while, we watched the alternative approach, favoured by the Welsh Conservatives, play out in England.

It was characterised by the now-familiar confusion of a UK Government that is unable to act. The spectacle of press conferences cancelled after Cabinet meetings because of failure to decide eventually fell into a choice not to act. As the First Minister said, what we saw and continue to see is a UK Government paralysed by division in its ranks, leading England to be an outlier in the UK when it comes to protecting its citizens. Not for the first time, the internal politics of the Conservative Party were treated as a greater priority then the well-being of a nation. And isn't it remarkable that after the events of recent weeks, the Welsh Conservatives honestly believe that the Welsh Government ought to follow the leadership and the examples set by the Prime Minister? A Prime Minister who broke the rules, broke the law, lied to Parliament and the British people, a Prime Minister who partied while the country made sacrifices, while people couldn't see loved ones, and while people died.

The Welsh Conservatives could, of course, choose to propose an approach of their own, and they could do this without fear of upsetting their masters in London because, as we now know, their masters in London don't even know who they are, and which does of course beg the question: if your own leadership doesn't take you seriously, why should this Senedd, this Government, or the people of Wales take you seriously? Or they could follow the lead of Christian Wakeford MP, the MP for Bury South, who crossed the floor today to join a party that does take this issue seriously. Or they could join Tory MP David Davis and call on their Prime Minister, who has failed this country so miserably, to quit now or, to quote him more accurately,

'In the name of God, go.'

Any of these actions would be preferable than the toadying actions that we've seen from them up to now.

Llywydd, our approach has been consistently guided by the evidence, so I am sorry to disappoint Russell and James and Laura and everybody else who's spoken from the Tory side this afternoon that your views were not the views that we took into account when making our decision—it was the evidence that was presented to us. And where we believed that England had taken the wrong course, we did not shy away from acting decisively and differently to keep Wales safe. On test and trace and PPE, we've delivered better outcomes at lower costs. This approach allowed us to redirect hundreds of millions into business support via the economic resilience fund, which does not exist in England.

Deputy Minister, you need to conclude now.

The interim findings of a survey conduced by Cardiff University show that 85 per cent of respondents agreed that support from the economic resilience fund was as important as furlough.

So, to be clear, we did not take the most recent decisions to move to alert level 2 without considering the business consequences or the consequences for our culture, arts and sports sectors, which is why we introduced £120 million of packages for businesses, £15.5 million for the cultural sector, and £3 million of support for affected sports. And those funds also recognised the impact of the public's more cautious behaviour that began before the measures were introduced. So, the support will take effect from 13 December, before those measures were introduced. As Rhun ap Iorwerth said, omicron is still very much with us and levels of coronavirus are still incredibly high, but I am pleased that this Government took the decisive actions that we did at the time, which allowed us to keep Wales safe and move on our path to alert level 0.

In conclusion, Llywydd, I'm proud that this Welsh Government continues with its cautious, evidence-led approach to managing this pandemic, which has made our First Minister, Mark Drakeford, the most popular political leader in the UK, who continues to have the support and confidence of the majority of people in Wales. But, like everyone else, I look forward to the gradual return to more normality in the coming weeks and I look forward to going to watch the Scarlets and Bristol Bears playing on Saturday. Diolch yn fawr.

I call on Gareth Davies to reply to the debate.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Deputy Llywydd, and thank you to everyone who took part in this debate this afternoon. Possibly what the Deputy Minister might have forgotten is that there's one more Welsh Conservative to speak to close the debate, so I will come on to responding to some of the points the Deputy Minister made later on in my winding-up speech.

So, next week will mark the two-year anniversary of the World Health Organization declaring the outbreak of a novel coronavirus in mainland China a public health emergency of international concern, and the anniversary of the Foreign Office advising against travel to the Wuhan province of China. Since that time, we have seen the biggest curtailment of freedoms and civil liberties ever witnessed in peacetime, all in an effort to prevent the spread of what we now know as COVID-19. While this was justified at the beginning, as we were waiting for treatments and vaccines to be developed in order to protect the most vulnerable, now, as we enter our third year of restrictions, and with over 90 per cent of the adult population vaccinated against COVID, can we continue to say that such curbs are necessary? Can we really justify draconian restrictions on our freedoms?

We know full well that measures such as those recently reinstated by the Welsh Government are doing harm, real harm, to the people of Wales. You would be hard pressed to find anyone who can honestly say that the past two years haven't impacted their mental well-being. How many children will never recover from the damage done to their education and development due to school closures? How many families have been forced into poverty because restrictions have forced businesses to cease trading? How many generations will be forced to live with the debts racked up to deal with the impact of lockdowns? We spent, and continue to spend, eye-watering amounts during the past two years in order to shut down large parts of our economy. Think how those billions could have been spent. We could have had a first-grade social care sector, for starters. We can't carry on doing this forever and the SARS-CoV-2 virus is not going away. We have to learn to live with it, and I may be the fourth or fifth to say that now from the Welsh Conservatives, so you might want to tick that one off as well on the Plaid Cymru benches.

We can protect the vulnerable by ensuring that they are fully vaccinated and have immediate access to COVID treatment should they get sick. But the rest of us have to get on with our lives. We can't go into lockdown every bad flu season. Yes, COVID is worse than the flu, but only to the unvaccinated and the most vulnerable. For everyone else, there isn't much difference.

Gareth, will you take an intervention?

Yes, certainly.

Rhun.

Diolch yn fawr iawn. I've got to come in here and say I am frankly disgusted with the Conservatives' attitude in this debate this afternoon. It's the most COVID-denying, the most dismissive of the realities of the losses of the past couple of years, that I have ever heard. Are you ashamed that you're a party whose own leader rubbed our faces in it through his flagrant disregard for the sacrifices all of us have had to make? Do you really think that what we should be doing now is just wishing somehow that this had never happened? Is that the best that the right-wing Welsh Conservatives have got to offer now?

Quite frankly, I'm quite disgusted in the Member for Ynys Môn and Plaid Cymru's stance on this whole issue, as they've decided to abstain from voting on this. They say it's all hindsight and that it doesn't matter, but then in the next breath they say, 'Oh, we're still living with COVID and we're dealing with such pertinent issues.' So, I think you've got a bit of an internal battle there as to which road you're going down. So, I think it's quite rich for the Member for Ynys Môn to be calling the Welsh Conservatives' stance disgusting when they're not prepared to take a stance on it themselves.

At the weekend, the Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer unveiled his party's 10-point living with COVID plan, and demanded an end to lockdowns. A string of shadow Ministers did the media rounds, criticising the UK's plan B as unnecessary. Yet here in Wales we have a Welsh Labour Government implementing more stringent measures at every juncture. The Welsh Government needs to urgently unveil its own 10-point plan and rule out future lockdowns.

As my colleague Russell George outlined when opening the debate, he welcomed the Welsh Government delivering on the Welsh Conservatives' demand for a road map out of lockdown restrictions, and we welcome a road map to more liberty, to more freedoms. He mentioned some of the effects on businesses and that each pub in Wales is due to lose £16,000, and some of the issues near the border, with people travelling to Shrewsbury from his own constituency, and to Chester from mine, just to have a night out and a little bit of freedom for a weekend or so. It's not too much to ask when the evidence supports it, I don't think.

Laura mentioned about the chaos, the political side of the decisions not based on science, the draconian element of it, the balance of harm and some of the details in lifting some of the restrictions—

You will need to conclude now.

Sorry, Deputy Llywydd. And then, Deputy Minister, I was very disappointed to see a Welsh Government politicise the whole issue and create divisions along the border, saying it's all the UK Government's fault. You are the Welsh Government, you have the devolved powers. You've wanted from day one for this to be a devolved matter to Wales, and yet you decide to respond to a COVID-19 debate and politicise the whole thing and talk about division. And that's so true of the Welsh Government, of how they've handled this whole pandemic and why we need to have a COVID-19 inquiry specific to Wales.

I urge Members to reject the Welsh Government's amendment and to support our motion tonight. We need to get Wales open and well on the path to recovery, and let's put the past two years firmly behind us. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there is an objection. I will therefore defer voting until voting time.

The next item is the Plaid Cymru debate: the cost of living. And I call on Sioned Williams to move the motion.

Yes, I can see her.

Thank you very much, Deputy Llywydd. Our motion this afternoon calls on the Welsh Government to publish an emergency action plan to tackle the cost-of-living crisis that is hitting families in Wales. It's a crisis affecting households across the UK, but Wales will be and is being hit hardest by the economic storm and the huge social damage that will emerge from it in light of the fact that Wales has the highest level of relative poverty and the highest level of child poverty compared to all other regions of the UK. One in four people in Wales is living in poverty. The people of Wales, Deputy Llywydd, are in the eye of this storm.

Plaid Cymru has rehearsed and re-rehearsed the frightening and disgraceful statistics on the levels of poverty and its impact on Welsh families time and time again in this Chamber. When we had a debate on the cost of living and debt before Christmas, I noted how the number of households who were having difficulty in paying for everyday goods corresponded to the number of households in the whole of Swansea, and that figure is only increasing, with the Bevan Foundation reporting that almost 40 per cent of Welsh households can't pay for anything beyond the essentials of life. It now appears that it won't be possible for too many people, even, to afford that, having to choose between heating or eating, in Wales in the twenty-first century.

The facts are well known to us all and, now, there's a large body of evidence and research from all sorts of organisations that confirms the predictions and the warnings. The new report by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation on poverty confirms that it's families in Wales who will suffer the greatest hardship in light of the cost-of-living crisis. And the picture is still deteriorating as fuel prices shoot up to an entirely unaffordable level for too many people, and are likely to remain at that high level for a long period of time; as the level of inflation increases to the highest level for a decade, and the expectation that it'll go even higher; as the cost of living is at its highest for a period of 30 years; as wages on average are stagnating, but are falling for those on the lowest income levels; as household debts increase; as national insurance increases; and we have discussed many times how the disgraceful decision of the Conservative Government in Westminster to cut that £20 increase to universal credit has been a disaster for Welsh households. I'm sure that many of you will have heard heartbreaking stories from families in your own communities who have had difficulty in making ends meet. The message I hear very often is, 'I would want to see them trying to live as we have to live.'

Yes, many of the powers needed to safeguard the people of Wales from this looming crisis sit with the UK Government. I know that Welsh Government Ministers have been urging them to take action, but that the situation of the people of Wales is ignored by Westminster. What Plaid Cymru is calling for today is a new approach by the Welsh Government, and a clear recognition that the critical situation we're facing is one that we haven't experienced for decades, and that its impacts will scar Welsh communities not just today and tomorrow, but way into the future too, and that therefore we need urgent action.

We must listen to and act with urgency upon the evidence and suggestions being proposed for ways that we in Wales can do more to address this crisis. An emergency summit, as I said, would be a first step that could help inform an emergency cost-of-living action plan. We need initiatives to support renters, for example, who have been amongst the hardest hit by the cost-of-living crisis. The Welsh Government has put a cap on social rent for the coming year, equal to the level of inflation for September, which is 3.1 per cent. This is a welcome move as compared with the above-inflation hikes permitted this year for England. But will the Government commit to making this a permanent policy, and not slip back to the above-inflation rises that it normally permits? Will they also consider the calls of the Joseph Rowntree Foundation and others to institute a model of living rent, given that we know rent and rental arrears are one of the biggest costs facing households?

The tenancy hardship grant could be extended, so that more social housing tenants not eligible for universal credit or housing benefit could be helped permanently. The building and retrofitting of social housing could be further accelerated. Other suggestions that could be explored include more investment in the discretionary assistance fund, which could be extended and made more flexible permanently. The education maintenance allowance could be increased and extended. The idea of debt bonfires, recommended by the Equality and Social Justice Committee's report, could be progressed at pace.

How many more ideas could an emergency summit produce? How much urgency and strategic co-ordinated action could an emergency plan ensure, giving us clear priorities and joined-up effective implementation? It's those who are already suffering socioeconomic disadvantage in our society that are bearing the brunt of this crisis: renters, those on low incomes or in insecure work, disabled people, children, lone parents, older people, care leavers and black, Asian and minority ethnic households. These groups already face greater costs than most, so any increases in the cost of living only exacerbate the inequality and its economic, social and health impacts.

In discussing tackling the pandemic, the Government has often talked about the importance of early action. That is exactly the approach that we need with this crisis. We need to provide protection, yes, but we also need to try and prevent the storm from reaching its destructive height. This is not a short-term economic shock. Like the pandemic, its impact will remain for years. We must show leadership, determination and innovation if we want to safeguard and protect our people from serious harm and suffering. Thank you.

Diolch, Lywydd. Surely no-one can be unaware of the cost-of-living crisis that now threatens to engulf many of our constituents, except perhaps the occupants of No. 10. Inflation has leaped to 5.4 per cent, its highest level in almost 30 years. It's driven by higher costs of clothes, of food and footwear, furniture and household goods, and hold-ups in supply chains at British ports. The Bank of England expects it to rise further, especially if the UK Government continues in its state of paralysis, faced by the concurrent energy crisis, which could lead to an annual increase of £500 or more per household. While wages are rising for some, the cost-of-living increases, combined with measures such as cuts to universal credit, are outstripping this by far and leaving the average worker worse off.

The UK Chancellor says that he's listening. I think that the message from the public would be to start acting decisively before people freeze in their homes or go hungry or lose their tenancies or, indeed, the homes that they own. Many of the levers are in the hands of the UK Government. So, it is a matter of deep regret that the UK Government, and especially the Prime Minister himself, are so focused on intently clinging on to the keys of No. 10 at all costs that they cannot focus at all on the cost-of-living crisis. I can do no better than refer Conservative Members of the Senedd to the words of one of the Prime Minister's own backbenchers—and a former Minister and leadership contender, indeed—today at Prime Minister's questions, when he said to the PM, quoting Cromwell's address to the long Parliament:

'In the name of God, go.'

As the UK Government retreats into a bunker, outside the cold winds are biting. They are biting hard in places like Bury South. As we welcome Christian Wakeford, the new Labour MP for Bury South, today, we note the pertinence of his words on leaving the Conservative Party for this debate that we have today. He said:

'I care passionately about the people of Bury South and I have concluded that the policies of the Conservative Government led by Boris Johnson are doing nothing to help the people of the constituency and indeed are only making the struggles they face on a daily basis worse.'

His words are going to echo in many less affluent areas of the UK, including some that are currently represented by Conservative Members in this Senedd and their Welsh MP colleagues. In Wales, we know that this Johnson effect is telling too. Despite the best efforts of the Welsh Labour Government, it's like swimming upstream against a tide of Johnsonian indifference and ineptitude.

A crisis is usually immediate. It's a time of intense difficulty, sometimes danger. But when we think of crises, we tend to associate them with suddenness, of something unforeseen, unplanned for, inescapable. This crisis, though, this coalescence of attacks on people's cost of living, is completely foreseen. In some respects like the cut to universal credit, it has been actively brought on by Government. Even the energy bills increase that's on the horizon has been coming for months, arguably far longer. And that incongruity, that clash between usual crises and what's happening now, isn't just jarring on a conceptual level; it has real-world effects. Psychologically, people who are already struggling to get by with bills, with food prices, will have been reading headlines for months that warned them that things are going to get worse, will have that looming sense of dread weigh on them, and will see not enough being done to stop it—that sense of anticipated crisis and expected trauma. That is going to be enveloping families in panic and quiet despair, and I'm not sure enough is being done to address that simmering mental health pressure that's being felt by people the length and breadth of Wales. People are already in crisis.

One woman told Newsnight this week that she ate Weetabix three times a day, because cutting her food bill drastically was the only way she could afford to heat her home. Another told Newyddion that she couldn't sleep because of worry. Money she put in her meter disappeared in no time, with her house's heat escaping through draughty windows. She said her son was ill all the time. These are not isolated experiences, as we've heard. In spring 2021, 16 per cent of Welsh households had to cut back on heating, electricity, or water, and 15 per cent cut back on food. We're told—again, we are warned in advance—that these figures will only get bigger as costs continue to rise. So, the gap between how people should be able to live their lives and the reality will grow greater. That shameful gap will gape open between living properly and only surviving. On 1 April, the energy price cap will increase. The Resolution Foundation estimates that this will add £600 to people's annual energy bills. The same week, national insurance increases come into effect, making the average household £600 a year worse off. Combined, the annual effect will be £1,200, or £100 every month.

In terms of energy bills, there are interventions that could be made, and indeed are being made by other states. France is forcing EDF to sell energy at low prices. The Spanish Government has introduced a windfall tax on electricity generators and gas producers. Germany has slashed a surcharge on bills used to support renewable energy schemes, which will instead receive extra state subsidies drawn from higher carbon taxes. These may or may not be suitable, or indeed possible, in a UK context, but the Welsh and UK Governments could and must look at interventions like suspending VAT on energy bills temporarily, retrofitting social housing more quickly and finding better ways to protect those with top-up meters. Could they be issued with a Welsh Government card, for example, to be used in emergency situations, with the option of paying off debt over the long term on zero interest? Yes, that would be expensive, but the alternative seems to be people suffering and even dying due to illness brought about by the cold; a situation where families are under financial pressure that can provoke stress and acute anxiety that can wear people down and exhaust them, and again all the while, a crisis that is not like a short, sharp shock, but a slow, burning bind, that is locking people into that anguish and misery that traps people in anticipated trauma.

We're pleased to support this motion. As figures today show, soaring food costs and the energy bill crisis are driving consumer prices up at their fastest rate in 30 years, with UK consumer price inflation at 5.4 per cent last year. Of course, this is not restricted to the UK, and inflation has risen in economies across the world; for example, I think 6.2 per cent in the US last October. As the Bank of England's chief economist stated three months ago, inflation has been increasing rapidly for much of 2021 because of the strong economic recovery from the coronavirus crisis, surging energy prices and global supply chain disruption. Those of us who remember inflation and its consequences in the 1970s and 1980s know that it is an economy and jobs killer, with devastating impacts on household budgets, and understand that this must be tackled, that massive liquidity injections to power us through choppy waters will therefore no longer be available, and that tighter fiscal policy normally follows, including further central bank interest hikes, although this will also need global responses to supply pressures.

Although UK inflation is expected to fall back later this year, it is not expected to drop to the Bank of England's 2 per cent target until 2023. I know that the UK Chancellor has stated today that he understands the pressures people are facing and will continue to listen to people's concerns, as he has done throughout the pandemic, adding that the UK Government was already providing support worth £12 billion this financial year and the next to help families cope. He's already delivered over £407 billion of economic support since the pandemic began, now backed by a further £1 billion package for key sectors to mitigate the impacts of omicron, and is also delivering £4.2 billion of support to help with the cost of living; keeping the energy price cap in place to protect consumers from the global spike in gas prices, or help that; delivering £1,000 tax cut for working families; by cutting the universal credit taper rate, costing £2.2 billion; increasing the national living wage to £9.50 an hour; freezing duty rates on fuel and alcohol to help with the cost of living; and enabling the Welsh Government to launch its household support fund by contributing £25 million towards this from its £0.5 billion fund to help households in need to buy essential items.

But regrettably, people in Wales were already particularly exposed. In four months' time, Labour will have been running Wales for a quarter of a century. The December 2018 Joseph Rowntree report on UK poverty stated: of the four countries of the UK, Wales has consistently had the highest poverty rate for the past 20 years. Last November's Joseph Rowntree Foundation poverty in Wales report stated that Wales has the lowest pay for people in every sector from the rest of the UK, and that even before coronavirus, almost a quarter of people in Wales were in poverty. Research carried out for the UK End Child Poverty coalition published last May found that Wales had the worst child poverty rates of all UK nations, and official statistics show that successive Labour Welsh Governments have failed to close the gap between the richest and poorest parts of Wales, and between Wales and the rest of the UK, despite having spent billions entrusted to them to tackle this on top-down programmes that did not do so. Had they done so, of course, they would have disqualified themselves from further funding. Even yesterday, they were talking as if this funding was not only ever intended to be temporary. Despite criticising other bodies that invest temporary funding in ongoing revenue costs, they've done the same. As the UK Chancellor has also said:

I'd like to focus my contribution to this debate on two essential things that we all need in order to be able to live: food and water—not luxuries, not nice-to-haves, but essentials. Mark Isherwood mentioned in terms of helping people into work, but the reality is that, here in Wales today, people who are working cannot afford these essentials.

During the Plaid Cymru debate on 8 December on food poverty, many of us shared horrifying statistics from our constituencies and regions in terms of foodbank usage and why it is not acceptable that food insecurity and hunger are a day-to-day reality for so many people that we represent. Unfortunately, rather than improving, the situation continues to worsen, hence why I'm supporting today's motion so that an emergency cost-of-living action plan is developed and implemented as soon as possible.

According to the United Nations, average food prices increased about 28 per cent in 2021 to a 10-year high. This has been partly caused by rising energy prices that have affected the cost of certain fertilisers, and increasing transport costs, which have both had a negative impact on food supply chains. More than half of households in Wales have faced increased food costs and, as we've heard, six in 10 have seen the cost of their utilities increase, such as their water and energy bills.

Last year, nearly 10 per cent of households in Wales were already experiencing low food security, and a fifth of people in Wales were worried about running out of food before they could afford to buy more. This figure was even higher for families with children. A third of people earning less than the living wage were having to skip meals, as Delyth Jewell illustrated, and nearly 60 per cent of people living in households with the lowest income in Wales reported changing their eating habits for financial reasons. As energy prices are expected to further increase, we're likely to see greater increases in food prices, as well as people having to choose between basic necessities, such as heating, food and hygiene products, including menstrual products—again, not luxuries. These are things that we are fortunate enough to be able to take for granted, though this may not have been the case for some of us in the past.

Not only are people in Wales living in food poverty, struggling with buying food and facing greater financial pressures to support a balanced diet, but water poverty is becoming an increasing issue in Wales, with water bills being a significant contributor to people in problem debt. After council tax arrears, water bill arrears were the second most common kind of debt that clients who approached StepChange were struggling with. It is estimated that 175,000 households in Wales live in water poverty, but only 35 per cent of those households receive the help they need under current arrangements. Research from the Consumer Council for Water has shown that households in Wales are living in water poverty, with households having to cut back on other essentials in order to pay their water bill. And support for water poverty is patchy, with households facing financial difficulties receiving significantly different levels of support or no help at all. Providing greater assistance for food and water costs within an action plan would help those in Wales who face financial pressures from other areas, such as rising energy costs and stagnating wages.

The Tory UK Government's cost-of-living crisis is hitting the people of Wales hard. It is a crisis and, yes, it is one that's been seen approaching. But we do have to acknowledge that the Tory Government is in charge of the parafiscal levers that will radically make a difference. And yet, the want-to-be heir of the Tory crown, the apprentice-apparent, Rishi Sunak, has been missing. He was missing last Wednesday when the Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, was fighting for his political life in the House of Commons—he was busy and didn't tweet his support for the PM until late into the night.

And this cost-of-living crisis, as has been stated earlier, it's not about beer or nights out, it is about anaemia, it's about rickets and it's about respiratory disease. So, I welcome strongly the fact that the Welsh Labour Government has been co-ordinating its representations to the UK Tory Government, alongside our colleagues in Edinburgh and Belfast. The Minister for Finance and Local Government, Rebecca Evans, was bang-on when she stated emphatically that Welsh households

'need to see urgent action from the Treasury to help people with rising bills and living costs.'

There will be, no doubt, widespread consensus around the Chamber that rising energy bills are causing huge anxiety and real mental and physical distress, with too many families living in fuel poverty and inflation rising to 5.1 per cent and predicted to rise more. And the Welsh Government has already invested more than £50 million trying to mitigate this issue. This is a cost-of-living crisis on top of the COVID crisis. And the power, if not the political will, lies mostly in the hands of the embattled and feeble Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, and his Ministers, with energy, welfare and levelling up as starters. I would be interested to hear from our Minister what Simon Clarke, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, was able to offer her and her colleagues. And hopefully, the Conservative grandees now sitting in Whitehall towers do recognise R.T. Davies.

Today in this debate I want to say this strongly, and to the Tories of this Senedd: I implore you to step up to the plate and finally stand up for Wales instead of Boris. Age UK has already warned that the predicted 50 per cent rise in energy bills from April could trigger a national UK emergency for millions of older people. The UK Government's price cap on what suppliers can charge is currently £1,277, but analysts are already speculating that this could go up to almost £2,000 on 1 April. We must mitigate the consequences of the major spikes in global prices, and as we enter, finally, the third year of the COVID-19 pandemic, we cannot allow more unnecessary misery to be inflicted on the Welsh nation. Citizens, especially the elderly and the medically vulnerable, should not have to ration, in the twenty-first century, their energy use because of financial pressure. And to take £20 a week away from the very, very poorest in our society at this time is utterly and totally unforgivable. Choosing between heating and eating is something that I hope none of us here in this Senedd should accept for anybody that we represent. I challenge the Conservatives in this place to please get some courage. Stand up to your political masters, stand up for Wales in the Treasury, and stand up for your constituents. Diolch.

We face a perfect storm: inequality and poverty, which were at unprecedented levels before coronavirus, have been amplified in the last two years. Life is already a struggle for so many, yet things are set to get worse—much worse. The energy price cap is expected to surge in April. If that was not bad enough, utility prices are set to rise once again six months later. Predictions are that the average energy bill will climb to around 75 per cent above current prices. It is not possible to overstate the hardship and devastation this will cause to so many families in our communities.

Many people are in a precarious financial position as things stand; they can ill afford what is set to hit us this year. Oh, I see, Llywydd, Rhun, I think, wanted to come in.

Thank you for doing my job for me, Peredur. Are you okay for Rhun to make an intervention? Okay. Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Thank you. Just a very brief intervention. Many constituents of mine have raised particular concerns about increasing energy prices. We talk about people having to make a choice between heating and eating. Does the Member agree that one problem we're likely to face more and more of is people being unable to cook or heat food because they can't afford the energy prices? And we know how damaging it will be for people to be unable to have a regular hot meal.

I agree entirely with Rhun there. Forcing people to choose between heating and eating a hot meal is dreadful, and the damage to people who can't access food regularly is unforgivable and frightening.

To compound matters, we have a Tory Government in Westminster that is beyond parody. While millions of people worry about how they will be able to afford their utility bills over the next 12 months, the lack of a cohesive answer from the UK Government over the looming cost-of-living crisis is unacceptable. If they devoted as much time and effort into tackling the cost-of-living crisis as they do organising lockdown-busting parties, we would be in a better position. Perhaps the indifference to the crisis is because Johnson and Sunak will not be subject to rising prices, due to the cap on the contributions they make for their Downing Street flats. The Prime Minister and the Chancellor are granted grace and favour accommodation, rent free, with utility bills and council tax costs met by the Government. I wonder whether they would act with a little more urgency if they were taken out of their cosseted lifestyle and forced to live on the breadline for some time. Perhaps Johnson has forgotten that he promised to end VAT on fuel bills, in an article he co-wrote for The Sun newspaper a month before the 2016 European Union referendum. Given that we are yet to see this policy delivered several years into his premiership, it can probably be chalked off as yet another Brexit broken promise.

The rising cost of energy has resulted in more than 20 suppliers collapsing. It has meant that their customer base has returned to the hands of the big six. There is now a compelling case to direct funding towards nationalised secure energy, particularly in renewables. The chances of seeing something positive and effective like this from a UK Government ideologically opposed to such measures are slim to nothing.

This cost-of-living crisis will hit older people particularly hard. The Older People's Commissioner for Wales has stated that older people on low incomes need more money to help with rising fuel bills. With an increase in the winter fuel support scheme, pensioners may face a choice between food or fuel, as highlighted by Rhun in his comment earlier. Older people were more likely to be affected in their jobs by coronavirus. A quarter of workers aged 60 to 64 were furloughed, lost hours or pay, or lost their jobs completely during the pandemic. Those who lost their jobs at this age during the pandemic may never find another job before reaching state pension age. We also know that credit use falls with age for those over 50, due to many lenders refusing to lend to people over a certain age.

Plaid Cymru wants this Government to invest in a targeted campaign to increase the take-up of pension credit. In 2018-19 alone, unclaimed pension credit totalled as much as £214 million. Pension credit not only provides financial assistance, but claiming the credit unlocks a range of other entitlements, such as council tax discounts, free dental care and help with housing costs. This is why this debate is so important. We cannot wait for action from a Government in London that is so out of touch with people from working-class communities. If anybody thinks there is a political will within No. 10 Downing Street to deliver for ordinary people living in Wales, then they haven't been paying much attention to history. People in Wales need help and reassurances, and they need them soon. I urge Government to act swiftly. Diolch yn fawr.

The frustrating thing for so many of us is that this is a crisis that we've seen coming. We've known energy prices are rocketing, we've known inflation is rising, yet what did this Conservative UK Government do? They cut universal credit, taking away a vital lifeline for the most vulnerable in society, they chose to raise national insurance, which will hit so many, and then, this morning, we've heard today that they've stood by to let inflation hit a 30-year high. As I speak, the Conservatives in Westminster are too distracted by the latest Downing Street disaster to get a grip on this crisis. This is why I really welcome this debate today, and I'm pleased to support the motion.

While most of the levers to counter the cost of living remain within the Westminster Government, it is imperative that the Welsh Government still must do whatever it can to alleviate the worst impacts of this crisis. The Welsh Government must be commended on the £51 million package that the Welsh Government drew from its reserves in November to help tackle the soaring cost of living through the winter. At a time when the UK Government Conservatives refuse to take meaningful action on the cost-of-living crisis, Welsh Government stepped in, and I and many residents are grateful for that. Through this funding, the Welsh Government have introduced good schemes: the council tax reduction scheme, the winter fuel support fund and a tenancy hardship fund. These will all make a difference, but, as we head through the coming months, we must explore whether there's scope to push further.

Firstly, with regard to the tenancy hardship fund, with rent arrears often come other debts too. The citizens advice bureaux have seen a dramatic rise in the demand for their debt advice services. Traditionally, the majority of the concerns are centred around council tax arrears, people who are struggling with escalating debts, additional fees and threats of bailiffs. However, sadly, and almost inevitably, the biggest increase has been in the number of people who have energy debts, which was 150 per cent higher in November than the same period in 2019, with bills set to rise later again this year, making even more people worried about how this will affect them.

And this is where debt advice can help. In Newport, with a Labour-led council, we're very fortunate to have financial inclusion officers in the housing support team, alongside our local citizens advice bureau office. While both groups have a heavy workload, they provide an excellent service and are a good example of good practice that can be rolled out across Wales—

Jayne, Mabon ap Gwynfor is indicating that he wants to intervene. I don't know whether you're willing to accept that.

Yes.

Yes. Okay. Mabon ap Gwynfor, felly.

Thank you very much, Llywydd, and thank you to the Member. She paints a very depressing picture and talks about the tenancy hardship fund. Isn't one way of discussing the cost-of-living crisis to refer to it as an unearned income boon, because private renters are more likely to spend more than a third of their income on rent? So, as a Member, would you agree with me that we need to see the Government intervening in the housing market and ensuring affordable rents for people on the ground?

Diolch yn fawr, Mabon, and I'm just going to come on to a point where I think that perhaps the Welsh Government can do a bit more on this sort of area.

Being in debt often feels like a gut-wrenching, endless cycle, and supporting residents out of that cycle, instead of just putting a temporary stop-gap on their worries, must be a priority. Within what the Welsh Government can do, if a system could be put in place for those applying for the tenancy hardship grant to be referred for debt advice, we may go some way to achieve that and could make a real, tangible difference.

Another area where the Welsh Government could do further work is the winter fuel support fund, a scheme announced just as the Conservative UK Chancellor was taking the twin action of cutting support and announcing tax rises. Currently, only people who are on certain means-tested benefits are eligible to apply. This excludes many people who are on low incomes and in fuel poverty. For example, those on the new-style contribution-based employment and support allowance receive the same amount as people on income-based ESA, but they're not eligible to claim from this fund. So, I'd like to ask the Minister if she would look at this and work with other Ministers to see if there are ways to expand the eligibility criteria along the lines of broader groups for the Warm Homes discount, or if there's any way that local authorities could use discretion in making awards from the fund. Now, I do appreciate that this will be placing additional work on the administration of local authority staff, who are working extremely hard to support residents. Their work is invaluable and hugely appreciated, and supporting them also is vital.

The Westminster Government are ignoring the looming crisis by expending all their energy protecting their failing leader. Stalling wages, steep inflation and soaring energy prices can be a toxic combination, which will hit the poorest hardest. Ultimately, at times like this, it's up to our Welsh Labour Government to take action the Conservatives won't. We must use every possible avenue to stop debts building up and support people who are being forced into debt through the very real pressures on the cost of living. Diolch yn fawr.

I've heard the Conservatives say in the Senedd that they believe the way out of poverty is by working their way out, but many people in poverty are in work or struggling to find decent work that fits in with childcare. Expected long hours of work and shift patterns are often horrendous, and there has been a race to the bottom in employment standards, increasing productivity and the efficiency at the cost of the worker. In Wales, one of the biggest employers is public services, with care workers, teaching assistants and hospital porters, but public services funding was cut from 2010 for 10 years, year upon year, causing an impact on that, on public services funding.

With predictions putting energy price rises at 50 per cent once the cap is lifted in April, few households across Wales will avoid feeling the pinch this year. The universal credit cut could not come at a worse time, with household books already balanced by the margins. It's thanks to the Welsh Government's intervention with the roll-out of the winter fuel support scheme that many of the most vulnerable households are receiving a lifeline to deal with immediate pressures, but longer term solutions are needed.

Last week, I met Citizens Advice in Denbighshire to hear about the work that they do to support families to increase income, deal with debt and reduce household bills, and I would like to share today some of the challenges that were highlighted to me by Citizens Advice that could be addressed as part of an emergency cost-of-living plan going forward. Firstly, we need to address the inequality in access to affordable energy. At present, the energy efficiency rating of local authority housing stock varies greatly. I've been contacted by one of the residents whose outdated storage heaters are costing him £8 a day just to keep warm. Those living in private rented accommodation also often face paying over the odds to heat poorly insulated homes with inefficient heating systems. Issues like this need to be urgently addressed, and I hope the roll-out of the retrofitting programme will be continuing at pace.

On top of this, many tenants are forced to use prepayment meters, which in effect adds a poverty premium to the cost of energy, stigmatising those in rented accommodation. Given the advances in metering technology, it seems totally unjustifiable that someone on a prepayment meter should pay more for what they use.

We also need to ensure that the most vulnerable in our society are receiving the benefits that they are entitled to. At present, the Welsh Government-funded Advicelink service provides free advice on a range of subjects, including welfare, but I'd like to see increased funding for proactive campaigns to ensure that people are aware of the support they're entitled to.

Okay, I'm not sure whether your dog growling was responsible for me losing audio for some part of that contribution. I trust it was all in order. I didn't see any panicky faces in front of me. We'll call the Minister now to contribute to the debate. Jane Hutt.

Diolch, Llywydd. I'd like to thank Plaid Cymru for bringing this important debate today. It's absolutely topical currently and a really important debate as we take action as a Government to tackle the cost-of-living crisis, which is so seriously adversely affecting the people we all represent and serve in Wales, which has come over so strongly in the debate.

We are, as a Government, drawing together our plans and using our powers to tackle the cost-of-living crisis, as called for in this debate, but I do want to endorse the points that have been made by Members today that the powers and fiscal resources needed to help people with the spiralling costs of energy bills and increasing living costs do lie, mainly, with the UK Government. So, this debate does provide us with the opportunity to unite today to back the representations that we are making as Welsh Government Ministers to the UK Government, because of those powers and fiscal levers they have, but also as well the taking forward of our plans and priorities that have been called for today in this motion and by Members.

As has been highlighted, the Minister for finance met with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury last week, with colleagues from Scotland and Northern Ireland, to call for urgent action to lessen the burden on hard-pressed households as a result of the cost-of-living crisis. Julie James, Minister for Climate Change, and I have written to the UK Government to express our deep concern about the increase in domestic energy prices, pressing the case for urgent action to safeguard vulnerable households. You will have seen the letter that we wrote.

I also wrote this week to the Secretary of State at the Department for Work and Pensions, calling on the UK Government to uprate welfare benefit payments this April, in line with the consumer price index increase, because the Institute for Fiscal Studies, you will have seen, reported last week that they expect this to reach 6 per cent. With that uprating, this would save our lowest income households from facing a £290 real-term, year-on-year fall in benefit income, helping just to marginally ease the cost-of-living crisis that they're facing.

When the UK Government took the shameful decision to end the £20 uplift in October last year of universal credit, despite warnings of the impact it would have in plunging more households into poverty, we urged and continue to urge the UK Government to reverse its decision. It resulted in the biggest overnight cut to social security payment rates since the modern welfare state began. And the fact is, the UK Government's autumn spending review doesn't meet the scale of the challenge we're facing to tackle this cost-of-living crisis—this perfect storm, as has been said—and invest in our public services, businesses, communities and families in Wales.

I thank Members for identifying the role local authorities can and do play. They are crucial to help us in these action plans that we can take here in Wales, not just the Welsh Government, but working with local government and the third sector as well. Further announcements are coming forward from the Welsh Government on our household support grant.

It's crucial that we look to our discretionary assistance fund with the extra £14.7 million for the current financial year and, as has been called for, and we're implementing, in continuing those flexibilities, allowing for a greater number and greater frequency of payments for people impacted by the cost-of-living crisis and the withdrawal of the universal credit £20 uplift. But we've also reinstituted our winter fuel assistance from the discretionary assistance fund for off-grid homes, boiler repair grants until the end of March 2022, and, as has been called for, we're running a national benefits take-up campaign, ensuring people receive the financial support that they're entitled to. Again, as has been mentioned, pension credit, it's crucial that we have that campaign, working with the older people's commissioner. Actually, our campaign in March last year did result in a huge uptake of £651,000-plus claimed by those entitled to benefits. I strongly urge the UK Government to run a similar campaign, as have the Scottish Ministers as well, to relieve those financial pressures that they're experiencing.

I'd like to just very quickly say 'thank you' to the Equality and Social Justice Committee. Your review on indebtedness—and we responded to that positively last week—was crucial, and you've got a forthcoming inquiry into fuel poverty. The integrity of your work has helped to inform and shape our response to these vital issues, and I think that's part of what the Plaid motion is calling for, that we all work together in this way to make that difference we can make in Wales. Because we do have a more generous social wage in Wales, through initiatives such as our council tax reduction scheme, free prescriptions, the effect of leaving money in the pockets of Welsh citizens. And the tenancy support fund has been mentioned—the £10 million tenancy support fund—which is now not just supporting the private sector, but social housing tenants struggling to repay significant rent arrears. Again, listening to all the points that have been made in this debate this afternoon, our single advice fund, integrated services during the first six months of this year, helping people again to make additional claims of income. And we mustn't forget our self-isolation support scheme, which has actually helped people who are unable to work because they're legally required to self-isolate, and nearly £29 million has been claimed to date.

Minister, if you were in the Chamber, the clock would have long turned red by now, so if you can bring your comments to a close, please.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. As National Energy Action has clearly stated, the UK Government has the powers and fiscal resources to address these issues, but we will do what we can with our powers and policies here in Wales to support this motion and take this forward. Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd.

Luke Fletcher to reply to the debate.

Thank you, Llywydd, and thank you to all Members who have contributed to this afternoon's debate and to the Minister for responding.

As we close this debate, I think it's worth noting and reiterating a point Jayne Bryant made, that the daily struggles due to the cost of living are not something new, this is something that has been in the works for a decade or more. But, what we are seeing now is an amplification of those struggles, a struggle that should never exist in the first place. That amplification will lead to Victorian levels of poverty, and that's worth pausing to think about for a moment—Victorian levels of poverty in present-day Wales.

We've heard from Huw Irranca-Davies, Rhianon Passmore and Peredur Owen Griffiths about the effect that the rising costs of fuel are having. Families who were just about managing before now are being pushed over the edge through no fault of their own. We've seen the story on BBC Wales news of Judith, a grandmother, who only puts the heating on when her grandkids come for a visit, and even then she can only afford to have it on for an hour. If that doesn't wake you up to the reality of the situation, then I don't know what will—a situation that reinforces exactly what Peredur outlined on the effect of the cost of fuel on elderly people.

We've heard from Heledd Fychan about how the cost of food and water has risen, plunging more people into food poverty. And, as Heledd pointed out, last year, nearly 10 per cent of households in Wales were experiencing low food security, and a fifth of people in Wales were worried about running out of food before they could afford to buy more. This figure was even higher for families with children. And all of us will have seen the rise in foodbank usage with our own eyes. Food and water aren't luxuries, they're fundamental to human life. We can't live or survive without them.

We've also heard from Sioned Williams and Carolyn Thomas how wages are not keeping pace. Before this crisis, people were already working more than one job to make ends meet. And all this, of course, as Sioned Williams, Rhun ap Iorwerth and Delyth Jewell alluded to, means even more families are now making that choice between heating and eating. And for those who have already needed to make that choice, they are no doubt sick with fright about where all this will leave them. Meanwhile—and I know that there are Members who would like to sing of the virtues of this particular group—whilst 163 million people were driven below the poverty line during the pandemic, a surge in share and property prices led to the 10 richest in the world seeing their global wealth increase to $1.5 trillion. Oxfam projects that, by 2030, 3.3 billion people will be living on less than $5.50 a day. Let me put this in different terms: during the pandemic, the world's 10 richest men have seen their wealth double, as their income has grown nearly $1 billion a day, whereas the rest of the world has taken a pay cut. So, I'll ask the question again, as I've done in the Siambr before: at what point do we decide that hoarding that amount of wealth is immoral, because I think that we have long passed that stage now?

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? I don't see any objection, and therefore the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

That now brings us to voting time. We will take a short break to prepare for those votes.

That brings us to voting time. Today's votes are on the Welsh Conservatives' debate on COVID restrictions. The first vote is on the motion, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 13, 11 abstentions, and 28 against. Therefore, the motion is not agreed.

The next vote is on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 39, no abstentions, and 13 against. Therefore, amendment 1 is agreed.

The next vote, and the final vote, is on the motion as amended.

Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 52, no abstentions, none against. Therefore, the motion as amended is agreed.

That concludes voting time for this afternoon. We will now move to the short debate.

Today's short debate is to be presented by Jane Dodds. So, I call on Jane Dodds to speak to the topic that she has chosen. Jane, over to you.

Thank you very much, Llywydd, and I'm delighted to hold this debate this afternoon and to draw attention to public transport in Wales. I'm pleased that Carolyn Thomas, Mabon ap Gwynfor and Jayne Bryant have expressed an interest in this debate, and I've agreed to give them some time so that Carolyn, Mabon and Jayne can contribute to the debate. It's a lonely place to be a Liberal Democrat in the Senedd, so I am grateful for that.

We all know that young people have been hit hard by the COVID pandemic and that they will continue to be affected long after the direct risks of COVID-19 to public health have dissipated. I'm also aware of the priority shared across the Chamber to remove the barriers faced by young people in accessing services, jobs and opportunities, and I believe that affordable public transport should be a key part of delivering this.

That's why the Welsh Liberal Democrats are proposing that we make public transport—bus and rail travel—free to all under 25-year-olds in Wales, as a key element of that recovery programme for young people.

There are three areas that I want to briefly highlight. First, in bringing forward this debate, I want to reflect on my party’s record in this area. In the fourth Senedd, Welsh Liberal Democrat colleagues made concessionary travel for 16 to 18-year-olds a key part of negotiations with the Welsh Government, later extending the scheme to 21-year-olds. This was, in fact, a policy that young members of the Welsh Liberal Democrats brought to our party conference. And that approach has been a success, hasn’t it? At the end of October 2020, there were approximately 32,000 active MyTravelPasses in circulation and, pre pandemic, there were more than 1.3 million discounted journeys. TrawsCymru's free weekend travel initiative, which ran from July 2017 to March 2020, also shows that discounted fares can work, with an increase then of more than 81,000 journeys. So, if those schemes work in encouraging take-up of public transport, then I do think that we should look at what more we can do to encourage people to make the switch to public transport and to ease financial pressures. I do welcome the Government's youth guarantee and would repeat comments I made during the Minister’s statement about ensuring that it is not only a meaningful offer, but one that young people can reach.

Secondly, there's the environmental aspect. Transport is our third largest carbon emitting sector, making up 17 per cent of Wales's carbon emissions. Private cars alone account for 7.7 per cent of those. And Wales continues to have the highest proportion of people travelling to work by car than any other part of the UK, and those figures have remained stable over the past 15 years. So, we know that we need to encourage as many people as possible out of private vehicles. I am acutely aware that there is a desperate need for additional funding to enable decarbonisation of public transport. And, unlike in Scotland, without a dedicated fund to support bus operators to rapidly clean up their bus fleets, this will be a difficult task for operators. I do hope the Deputy Minister can shed some light on what work is being undertaken to funnel financial support to achieve this. But, without a concerted effort, modal shift and decarbonisation agendas, we will be a long way off, when public transport provision is so variable across Wales.

So, my final area is in relation to communities in rural Wales. We don't want them being left behind when there is properly funded and co-ordinated investment in public transport. On this issue, I'm grateful to the Confederation of Passenger Transport for their time earlier this month to talk through the current challenges facing the bus industry. Bus journeys made up three in every four public transport journeys in 2019, but we have still seen a 22 per cent decline in the number of bus journeys between 2008 and 2019. There are lots of reasons for that, but punctuality, frequency, routes, quality and cost are all contributing factors, and these are exacerbated in rural areas. It is important to look at good practice for public transport in rural areas, both in the UK and abroad, such as the Ring a Link service in rural Ireland, the mobility agency in Italy, and—I do like this one—the Bürgerbus in Germany. It's not what you think it is.

Could I begin by thanking Jane Dodds for this short debate? Public transport is an issue close to my heart as well. Before I was elected to the Senedd, I delivered a petition with more than 3,500 signatures on it, which called for buses to be run for people not profit. These were all people that were really worried and concerned about losing their public bus transport. As chair of the cross-party group on public transport, I recently heard evidence on the need to improve marketing to encourage the use of public transport again, giving the public confidence to return to using buses and trains. Currently, 15 per cent of people expect they will use public transport less after the pandemic, and 23 per cent are undecided. As it stands, the use of private vehicles for many is an affordable and more efficient way to travel, meaning that to reach public transport targets serious changes will be required. Key actions for the recovery of the public transport sector include the need to reassure passengers.

A free travel card will encourage people to use public transport at a young age, giving them confidence that it is a normal and preferred way of travel as they go through to adulthood. Across Europe, we are beginning to see the benefits of free public transport, and from the end of this month in Scotland, anyone aged between five and 21 will be able to apply for a Young Scot card, which will allow them to travel by bus for free. In Tallinn in Estonia, all public transport is free for residents of the city, and in the French city of Dunkirk, free public transport led to reduced carbon emissions and helped to revitalise the former industrial port, with passenger numbers increasing by 60 per cent during the week. Public transport is absolutely vital to any serious attempt to tackle climate change. I welcome this debate, and I look forward to working with colleagues across the Senedd to bring about a transport system for the challenges of our future. Diolch.

Thank you to Jane for bringing this debate before us today. It's a very important debate for all parts of Wales, but I want to focus in the minute I have on rural Wales and to look specifically at Dwyfor Meirionnydd. I recognise and thank Jane for referring to rural Wales in her contribution. Of course, what we have seen over the last decades is the centralisation of services away from our communities, services moving into cities and towns—in the case of north Wales, moving towards the coast and away from our smaller rural villages. Therefore, people can't access those services. Just think if you're a young person living in somewhere like Trawsfynydd and wanted to travel to play football and there's no 3G pitch available nearby; if you need treatment, and you don't want people to know about that, but you are reliant on private transport, on a friend, or a member of your family to take you to hospital or the clinic.

I want to refer specifically to one example to highlight the importance of this. I've been speaking to the charity GISDA; I've referred to them in the past. They're an excellent charity working in the north-west of Wales helping disadvantaged young people. They carried out a consultation with users of that charity, and the main challenge facing those young people was mental health, and the lack of facilities for mental health, and one of the challenges was not being able to reach those facilities. If you live in Harlech or the far end of Llŷn, or Meirionnydd, you have to travel hours to get to Bangor, Colwyn Bay or even further afield. This demonstrates the importance of transport, particularly for young people in our communities. We need to give it the greatest import and to invest in public transport in order to ensure that these people receive the services that they need. So, thank you, Jane, and I hope we will get a positive response from the Deputy Minister.

I really welcome this important debate put forward by Jane Dodds, and I'd like to thank Jane for agreeing to give me a minute of her time. I agree with her on many of the points raised today. The area I would like to focus on is the issue of school transport. Particularly, I'd like to see free school bus transport introduced, perhaps as a start, to both encourage more children to travel by bus to school, normalising that behaviour, but also to help families who can't keep up with the cost of school transport, many of whom feel that they have to drive their children instead. Every year, I receive e-mails from worried parents who are struggling to afford school bus costs. At a time when we know that families are facing a crippling cost-of-living crisis, it would both ease the burden while also encouraging a far more sustainable form of transport for our children and young people, helping to embed this behaviour. The school run contributes to congesting our streets every morning and afternoon, so let's tackle that by offering an attractive alternative: a more widely accessible free school bus transport system to supplement our safe routes to school. Once again, I'd like to thank Jane Dodds for this really important debate today.

I call on the Deputy Minister for Climate Change to reply to the debate. Lee Waters.

I'd like to thank the Member for tabling the debate and for the range of contributions from Members. As ever, when we debate public transport in this Senedd, there is cross-party interest and support for being more ambitious, and there's no denying the fact that free public transport is an attractive idea. To tackle climate change and reach the non-negotiable limit of net zero carbon emissions by 2050, it's essential that we make fewer car journeys and shift modes of transport to shared forms of mobility and to active travel. The question we're all grappling with is: how we do we do that? How do we change travel behaviour and attitudes and how do we rejig the transport machinery and infrastructure to help bring that about?

There's no doubt that incentives and disincentives will play a key role. As Julie James and I have been saying since we were appointed as Ministers for climate change last May, we need to make the right thing to do the easiest thing to do. But our transport and planning system has been shaped to make jumping in the car the easiest thing to do, and cycling, walking or using public transport less easy, and that has to change. Clearly, price has a role to play in how we incentivise public transport use. It certainly is not the only factor, though. Bus operators have been telling Senedd committees for years that the biggest barrier to attracting more passengers is the impact congestion has on journey times and reliability. A lack of integration between bus and rail is another barrier, as is changing habits. Fifty per cent of people never get on the bus. As a result, many of us have a skewed view of the reality of bus travel, its ease of use or its convenience. So, there's lots we need to change, but where to start and how to pay for it? Those are the questions that confront us.

In the French city of Dunkirk, they've certainly found that free bus use has been a success. In September 2018, they increased local business tax to fund free bus use and have seen the number of passengers increase by 60 per cent during the week and double on weekends. We've already trialled it ourselves with free weekend travel on our TrawsCymru strategic bus network between July 2017 and March 2020, and it was successful too in increasing usage. About a quarter of bus passengers were young people aged between 16 and 24, and when questioned, 73 per cent of young people told us that free travel would encourage them to make more journeys by public transport and switch from using the car.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I take my hat off to Swansea, Cardiff and Newport councils—Labour councils—who have all offered free and discounted bus fare initiatives over the last year. They all saw more people hopping on buses as a result, and we're looking carefully with them at the evaluation reports. So, again, there's no doubt that free bus use is an attractive option. But, of course, it comes at a cost and every Government has to prioritise. I know Jane Dodds is not arguing for free bus use across the board, but targeted at young people. And there is precedence: we provide free bus travel for older people, and it has been a great success. We all recognise that young people in particular have had a hard time during the pandemic, and that a range of metrics are not having the same opportunities as my generation has, or my parents'.

Diolch, Dirprwy Weinidog. His contribution brings us to a close tonight. So, thank you, everyone, and have a safe journey to wherever you're going home. I've got to travel home.