, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
A political party or group.
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
Okay. Fine. Let's go for a 'no increase', and I'll report that back to the Commission. I don't think there were particularly strong views. I shouldn't be saying that, I'm sure, but I think that we're fine with the number that we have for what we are doing…
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
We'll bring a proposal back on that to reflect, I think, where we all are on that, that there needs to be a kind of control mechanism on any executive or group being large enough to dominate those roles. The number of Senedd Commissioners, then. I think, with…
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
I think there's something in current legislation on that, is there?
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
Sorry, yes, Darren.
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
Other than to say that there should be a mechanism, either in legislation or in Standing Orders, that ensures that not all of those elected are from an executive, which could be a large coalition, remember, compared to a non-executive. Okay. I think we'll…
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
Right. And what was my proposal on that?
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
I think we'll bring all of this back. This is just a new twist on it, which is not the wrong thing to do, but it's just—. So, we'll explore these options and we'll bring some proposals back to you. Just the one other issue that remains, then, is that we, via…
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
Yes. Okay. Lesley.
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
David.
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
Okay. If we could just, for the time being, say that we agree that we should ask officials to change the name to 'Speaker', 'Deputy Speaker', 'Llywydd', 'Dirprwy Lywydd', but that we also consider the possibility of using a monolingual Welsh term. There is no…
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
Okay. Fine.
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
So, what that means is that we would create this bit of the legislation by reference to 'Llywydd' and 'Dirprwy Lywydd', or two 'Dirprwy Lywydds', but we would also need to replicate that with a term in English.
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
Yes. But there will be a Welsh version of this legislation.
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
Yes? Is that okay?
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
I'm sure that there would have to be a change to a Welsh version, because 'Presiding Officer' is the term in legislation at the moment, so there would need to be some change—whether that is changing 'Presiding Officer' to 'Llywydd' in English and in Welsh, or…
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
Okay. So, a maximum of two. And then, just on the name, I end up, obviously, calling myself Llywydd, and that's the term I use. But, for people from outside of Wales primarily, that's unfamiliar to them, so I call myself a Presiding Officer. And then, all of…
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
Do we think that we're getting to a consensus with a maximum of two? But then, obviously, it will be for the next Senedd to decide on that. And, this is always, of course, subject to a vote. The Standing Orders would reflect the need to vote two Deputy…
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
Okay. That's good. Anything else? What's proposed there is slightly different to what was said by Labour, and probably Plaid Cymru, but possibly achieves the same thing, which is you set a maximum of two deputy speakers. The politics of the time, possibly…
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
Okay, let's do the numbers first then. Darren, do you have a view on this?
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
Yes. I can see that there's a logic to 12 being a minimum, because it is the current Government, but I don't know why we would want to introduce a minimum that is higher than 12 in the legislation. A Government could bring forward a Government that is between…
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
The other option that could be available to us is to have a maximum that is somewhere towards the middle of this, of 16, say, which is the Labour group proposal in the written form, but with a possibility of a two-thirds vote, a supermajority vote, up to 19…
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
I'm putting officials on the spot there, but it's certainly something we can look at in terms of a minimum number.
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
Can I just be clear, then, why there should be a minimum? I'm not quite understanding the concept of why a minimum is necessary.
, Business Committee
Senedd Reform
Okay. Fine. I think we've rehearsed all the issues. I think there's an agreement that there should be an upper limit in the legislation. There is some disagreement as to whether there should be a minimum and what that minimum should be, so we need to further…
