, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
We didn't really get to the bottom of that, but I think it's partly about the relationship between Treasury and Whitehall departments and us as a Government. So, quite understandably Treasury will want to sit down with the Minister and officials will discuss…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
Last year we made our first ever request for that switch, but it was denied by Treasury, so it's not something that we've been able to do. All we get is what comes out of the agreements that Treasury has made with Whitehall departments. So, for example, in…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
Yes, so it's lost 23 per cent of its value since—. So, both the Wales reserve and our borrowing powers have lost 23 per cent of their value since they were originally set.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
Yes, we're asking, actually—. And the borrowing point as well. Local authorities have that prudential borrowing. That's something that we would, ultimately, like to see. In the first instance, I think even just increasing the limits in line with inflation…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
So, one thing I'd really like to pursue is the point about late funding. So, anything that comes through very late in the financial year, we should be able to carry that into the next year without this kind of—. At the moment it's 10 per cent of the reserve…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
I do have some sympathy with Treasury Ministers, in the sense that they will need to get all of the figures from Whitehall departments before, for example through the supplementary estimate processes, they're able to provide us with our final figures. So, I…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
Well, we haven't yet raised a formal dispute, so in that sense the process itself hasn't been tested. That's partly because of the lack of engagement by the UK Government on some of these issues and the lack of consistent presence in the Treasury to have…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
Yes, there's no way of knowing how much of that is going to be new money. There have been other examples as well where we've been told that there would be additional funding; for example, the £600 million boost for councils in England. We were told that the…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
That's part of that challenge, really, about not having that independent arbiter as well. But one thing that we would want is a review of the Network Rail processes underpinning project investment decisions so that there is greater transparency. We think that…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
That's kind of after the event, in many ways.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
Shall I perhaps bring in Julian on the information that we get and when we get it, and particularly, for example, the transparency tables and so on?
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
And also local government and others, the third sector. They tell us, 'If we don't know what things are looking like before Christmas, then we are going to have to start sending out redundancy notices.' That's absolutely not the place that we would want to be…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
Yes, we'll always try and do things as quickly as we can.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
Standing Orders, as you know, require us to write to the Business Committee and yourselves ahead of the summer. I suppose that might have been a relic from the day when we had spring budgets. We always write with our best guess as to what might happen and…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
Before the general election was called, we were working through all the possible scenarios that we could find ourselves in this year, and some of them were potentially not even being able to finalise a budget in this financial year. We looked at every…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
Definitely.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
I think, critically, those discussions would have to be—or any kind of work stream would have to be—on a four-nations basis. It absolutely couldn't be a Treasury-led exercise, and obviously we wouldn't accept anything that might result in less funding for…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
So, we have through our bilateral meetings, and also I've mentioned them in the FISC meetings as well, the work that was done in 'Reforming our Union', so that is the way in which we would envisage that kind of needs-based approach being taken forward in…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
I hope not, because we also have those bilateral relationships with Treasury as well. So, there are things where you would expect all devolved Governments to have a particular interest in, for example, all of us—and the UK Government as well—will be feeling…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
Yes, absolutely.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
Yes, I will say—. Just to say as well that when we talked at the start about those principles for inter-governmental relations, about establishing trust, confidentiality and good communication, actually, those meetings that we have on a trilateral basis are…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
We have regular meetings on a trilateral basis in any case. So, around every eight weeks, I meet with the Ministers from Scotland and Northern Ireland on that trilateral basis, again to talk about how we can best work together to influence the UK Government…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
It is really frustrating because those FISC meetings are really important in terms of being able to set out our particular concerns, our asks, to try to make some progress on those things. But it has been the case, when there's been churn in the UK…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
Well, without taking anything for granted, Chair, in terms of what might happen in the election tomorrow, I was pleased to see the commitment within the Labour manifesto, which relates to updating the fiscal framework, and I think that is really important in…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 8
Yes, because we are very much at the tail end of the process when we finally get our figures. So, last year, I think that there were—. The capital to revenue switch, I think it was in health and in transport, and both of those then came out through the…
