, Finance Committee
Scrutiny of the Welsh Government Draft Budget 2022-23: Evidence session 5
Fantastic. Thank you very much, both, for making time available to come and speak to us this morning. After this session, the transcript will be sent out to you, so that you can just double check that as well. What we're going to do is take it in turns to ask…
, Finance Committee
Scrutiny of the Welsh Government Draft Budget 2022-23: Evidence session 5
Bore da, Sophie.
, Finance Committee
Scrutiny of the Welsh Government Draft Budget 2022-23: Evidence session 5
Good morning. Welcome to our first witnesses this morning. We've got a packed session for this committee meeting. I'd just like to invite you both to state your names for the record, and your roles, if you would.
, Finance Committee
Papers to note
We'll move on to item 2, therefore, the papers to note. We have the papers before us. We'll be discussing those in another meeting later on, so we'll just note them for now, in terms of the usual procedure. Thank you very much. So, we'll move on.
, Finance Committee
Introductions, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest
Good morning to everybody. A warm welcome to you to this meeting of the Finance Committee, and to everybody watching on Senedd.tv. The Record of Proceedings will be published as usual. Aside from the procedural adaptations relating to conducting proceedings…
, Plenary
Plaid Cymru Debate: Health inequalities
There exist huge inequalities in wealth and health in our society. I don't believe that anyone taking part in this debate could claim otherwise, but I would be delighted to show them around some of the communities in my region of South Wales East if they need…
, Plenary
Plaid Cymru Debate: Health inequalities
Thank you for the opportunity to participate in this debate.
, Plenary
Debate on a Statement: The Draft Budget 2022-23
Diolch, Minister, for this budget update this afternoon. I'm speaking this afternoon as one of the regional Members for South Wales East. I welcome the extra clarity your statement brings, because it allows the Senedd to provide the rigorous and focused…
, Finance Committee
Welsh Tax Acts etc. (Power to Modify) Bill: Evidence session 1
Many thanks to you for this morning and for this afternoon, indeed, and thank you to everyone for joining us, and thank you to my fellow Members too. I'm now going to give 10 seconds warning before we bring this session to an end.
, Finance Committee
Welsh Tax Acts etc. (Power to Modify) Bill: Evidence session 1
Okay, thank you. We're just trying to get an understanding of the risks of having this legislation and also of not having this legislation in place. It's always fascinating. Obviously, we'll take some oral evidence now, and then you're coming back to this…
, Finance Committee
Welsh Tax Acts etc. (Power to Modify) Bill: Evidence session 1
So, based on that, then, is 60 days too long? Should it be 28 days?
, Finance Committee
Welsh Tax Acts etc. (Power to Modify) Bill: Evidence session 1
Just to be clear, have you modelled what would happen? If this was in place now and an event that did happen, say, last year, or a previous event, would that have saved the Government money or would it have cost us money? Have you done that sort of modelling?
, Finance Committee
Welsh Tax Acts etc. (Power to Modify) Bill: Evidence session 1
Thank you, Mike. Based on that, you've obviously got both sides. If a made affirmative wasn't passed and you potentially had people who had paid too much, or we hadn't been able to claim or collect as much, with the taxes that we've got already that will be…
, Finance Committee
Welsh Tax Acts etc. (Power to Modify) Bill: Evidence session 1
I'll bring Mike in.
, Finance Committee
Welsh Tax Acts etc. (Power to Modify) Bill: Evidence session 1
The Minister is on mute.
, Finance Committee
Welsh Tax Acts etc. (Power to Modify) Bill: Evidence session 1
Thank you, Andrew. Peter.
, Finance Committee
Welsh Tax Acts etc. (Power to Modify) Bill: Evidence session 1
Thanks, Minister. Before I go on to Peter Fox, I'm just interested in knowing: was there a fifth purpose test or other purpose test that you thought that you might need, but you've discounted?
, Finance Committee
Welsh Tax Acts etc. (Power to Modify) Bill: Evidence session 1
Thank you. Sorry for cutting across you there, Carolyn. You carry on with your next questions. Thank you.
, Finance Committee
Welsh Tax Acts etc. (Power to Modify) Bill: Evidence session 1
Carolyn, before you go on to your next question—Mike, did you want to come in on this question about the question you had earlier?
, Finance Committee
Welsh Tax Acts etc. (Power to Modify) Bill: Evidence session 1
Thank you very much, Minister. Carolyn, if we go over to yourself.
, Finance Committee
Welsh Tax Acts etc. (Power to Modify) Bill: Evidence session 1
Okay. So, the Welsh Government proposed three regulation-making powers in its consultation document, which offered varying degrees of scrutiny by the Senedd. Can you explain how the Senedd lock proposal referred to in the consultation was intended to work…
, Finance Committee
Welsh Tax Acts etc. (Power to Modify) Bill: Evidence session 1
So, does this Bill highlight the need maybe for a legislative budget process to enable the changes to the Welsh tax Acts to be made through primary legislation rather than secondary?
, Finance Committee
Welsh Tax Acts etc. (Power to Modify) Bill: Evidence session 1
So, there's no similar legislative process in modifying primary tax legislation in the UK. Has the legislative process proposed in this Bill been implemented elsewhere, or is this a unique approach to modifying tax legislation? And, if so, what's unique about…
, Finance Committee
Welsh Tax Acts etc. (Power to Modify) Bill: Evidence session 1
Okay. The Bill can be categorised as an enabling Bill, which means the Senedd is being asked to delegate the powers to the Welsh Ministers to be used in certain circumstances, as you've mentioned. The House of Lords report noted that the use of skeleton…
, Finance Committee
Welsh Tax Acts etc. (Power to Modify) Bill: Evidence session 1
So, if you didn't have the tools, what would be the consequences of this Bill not passing?
