, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Firstly, what it does do is show the benefits of the consolidation exercise. When you've brought all these bits of legislation together, you then do actually scrutinise the meaning and the consistency across the board. My understanding is that most of the…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
It is, and it's one of those areas, again, where we've had to look very, very carefully at what previous legislation has had, what it says, what it actually means. It's the difference between 'compiling and keeping up to date' and then 'maintaining'; what…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Okay.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
And we're not creating new powers of entry. I think what we're doing is clarifying and restating what those powers actually are, within a consolidated piece of legislation.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
I think in my correspondence I did try to explain it, really, within the context of our interpretation of the 1990 listed buildings Act, and I know in the drafter's notes and, I think, in my letter, both of them are saying that what we're trying to do is to…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
So, that might add to why it probably wouldn't be helpful to change the wording, particularly in view of the case law. But, is there anything to add to that, James?
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Yes. It's another one of these, isn't it? In the case law on it, really the question as to whether the demolition of a building is partial or whole is a matter of fact and degree, so that's really the court saying, 'Well, to be honest, unless we can look at…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Chair, that's why I asked James to give the explanation. [Laughter.]
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Thank you for the question. I think we do think that it is an anomaly, but in order to explain that anomaly, I will come to you, James.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
If there's a specific process that's taken place and that's engaging, et cetera, then I think those are things you'll take on board. Of course, I think those things have to be put upfront with people who are engaging in that process as well, and, of course…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
If I can come in, I think it's because it's not a task and finish group that's related to policy or the development of policy, even the rights and wrongs of aspects of policy and how things might change, but when you've gone out specifically, and in a very…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Over to you, Gwilym.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
And Chair, just to reconfirm, we'll obviously await the conclusions that the committee comes to and any recommendations that you make. Obviously, we'll look seriously at that and take that on board. I can indicate that, certainly, my thinking is one that is…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
The inclusion of the preservation notices was a late amendment to the Historic Environment (Wales) Act 2016. I think that, as an organisation, they have consistently argued against the introduction of preservation notices. They made it clear that they…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
The point is that we're consolidating the law as it is, rather than what options might be to make changes to that. It seems to me that that fits in logically with the consolidation process.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Thanks for that, because I think it related, didn't it, to the power to make regulations that created options. I'll go over to you, James.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
I think that makes perfect sense.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Chair, I can confirm that, if the Bill proceeds, we intend to bring forward amendments to take on board those particular points, if that helps.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
This relates to the drafting of the Bill. James.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
We don't agree that section 90(4) fails to reflect the current position, but I'll refer over to Gwilym on this.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Thank you for the question. This is an area that we've given some thought. Of course, the evidence from the CLA, I think, is very, very welcome. I think the detailed input that they've put has actually been very constructive and very useful. So, I suppose…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Chair, these assurances, which are on record and part of the proceedings of the passage of the Bill, will hopefully give assurance as well, if there remain any concerns.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
I was going to suggest, Chair, that in order to get the precise legislative drafting issues regarding replacing 'preservation' with 'conservation', it's probably appropriate to go back to James.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Okay. I think this raises a number of issues both from a policy perspective and also from the drafting perspective, so I suppose, having said that, if I go over to the policy perspective first, and then to the drafting perspective—
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Pretty much so.
