, Finance Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
That's over the eight-year period. I'm confident that what we've done is to engage, for example, with the Senedd Commission and other relevant bodies in order to do the best you can to do an evaluation and an estimate of all those costings. Obviously, the…
, Finance Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
I'm Mick Antoniw, the Counsel General in Welsh Government and Minister for the Constitution. I'll perhaps ask my officials to introduce themselves.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Diolch yn fawr.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
It would also add in an individual in that way whose name hasn't been on the ballot paper, who has no mandate. So, it's a question of balance within that. One would hope that it is a very, very remote possibility, something that's not going to happen…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Yes, it is a risk, but I think it is a very remote risk, and again, I'm sure it's one of those things that would want to be reviewed, that will be part of the reviews that take place afterwards. I don't know, is there anything you can add?
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Well, not really. One option would be that you have a first-past-the-post by-election, but the problem with that is it goes totally contrary then to what has happened in terms of the balance through the proportional voting system, which has distributed seats…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Yes. It's completely clear, isn't it, that if for any reason a vacancy occurs that can't be filled, it is not a strengthening of democracy. The question is whether attempting to have a sort of by-election system that then really can't reflect the proportional…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
I suppose the starting point is that, looking at the experience of the past couple of decades, really, the number of situations where this has arisen—because we obviously have a closed list system already for one third of the seats—has been very remote. But…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Yes, I think I'm okay for five minutes.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
I think the appropriate way is probably through Standing Orders themselves, I would have thought, rather than the necessity of putting something on the face of the Bill. If there are recommendations from this committee or whatever, then, obviously, we'll give…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
I'm not sure why that's the case, because I just take it for granted that, if a committee produces a report, Government has a political and ethical responsibility to respond to that. It's part of our democratic process. But it is a matter that can be dealt…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
I think Government always respond to recommendations from a committee. The issue of what it can or cannot implement obviously goes into another dimension. But the issue of job sharing, which clearly was raised in the special purpose committee as an issue and…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Yes. The elements of a healthy democracy—it's a phrase I have been using ever since I've had this area of responsibility. Because, I think, apart from various well-being provisions that we all consider—environmental, equality, and so on—the state of our…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
I think the only logical alternative way of doing this is what might normally happen in progress and that is the Senedd choosing, of its own volition, that this is something it would want to consider very early on, and that applies to the previous discussion…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Section 19, I think, is there, really, for the same reasons, but, essentially, that this is an important piece of legislation. It makes an important change to the structure of the Senedd for the future. It makes important changes in terms of the voting…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
No.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Well, if the Senedd says it doesn't want to do it, it, basically, doesn't happen.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Well, the only other option is, really, not to put it in the Bill at all, on the basis that the Senedd could do it in any event, and there isn't a strict necessity for the Llywydd to have that duty imposed. But, again, legislation as it develops—. And as the…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
—but it is, as you say, giving a duty to the Llywydd to do something.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Can I just come in? I don't think—. It's not asking the other Senedd to do something—
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Yes. If I could just add, I think it is the Senedd asking the Government to put this on the face of the Bill, rather than the other way round. But you're absolutely right that, of course, in practical terms, once the Llywydd has done that, then it's up to the…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
I think from the starting principle that this is a Bill that emanates from recommendations from the Senedd itself, it seems to me this is also a matter for the Senedd rather than government to determine. It belongs to the Senedd, and where it proceeds beyond…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Well, I think, in a relatively minor way, because it again requires the Senedd to agree by two-thirds majority that it wants that duty to be there. That duty is something that has come via the co-operation agreement to be there, to ensure that it actually…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Absolutely. All it does is create a duty on the Llywydd to table a motion to enable that discussion to take place.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill: Evidence session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Can I say that I think it is? I think this isn't a traditional Government Bill in that sense—this is Government facilitating legislation that it is bringing, but it's on behalf of the Senedd. There can be semantics about how that is interpreted, but the Welsh…
