, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from item 4 of the meeting and for the remainder of the meeting after item 6
In accordance with Standing Order 17.42(ix), I propose that the committee resolves to meet in private for item 4 of today's meeting and the remainder of the meeting after item 6. Are all Members content? Thank you. I see that all Members are content, so I'd…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
Goodbye.
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
Okay. Thank you. Members, do you have any further questions? I can't see any indication. In which case, I thank Dr Goodall for being with us this morning. We've concluded our questions a little earlier than anticipated, which I'm sure will be devastating for…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
Thank you. If you were pushed on this, hypothetically, in the future, could you just say 'no'?
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
Can I bring in Luke Fletcher?
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
And that would be permissible.
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
If a Minister texts their family to say they're going to be late for dinner, or texts their friend to say that they'll meet them in the pub on Saturday night, is that official Government business?
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
And just developing on your answers, if you could just clarify, are all communications on Welsh Government-issued devices considered official business, and if not, why not?
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
Will this be a routine part of ministerial induction in the future?
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
You referred to the guidance issued internally. Could you develop that a little bit? What specific guidance, if any, is provided to Ministers on the use of Welsh Government-issued devices, including mobile phones, and does such guidance specify any activities…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
Moving on, the ministerial code sets out that Government property should not generally be used for constituency work or party political activities. But as you know, the waters have become muddied by the development of modern technology and what devices can…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
Just to confirm, the other Governments in the UK have appointed independent advisers into a role specified for that purpose. Am I correct?
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
Given, as you quite rightly indicate, that civil servants are required to provide impartial advice to Ministers and support for them, is it right in your view that civil servants should be put in the position of having to potentially investigate the very…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
Okay. Thank you very much indeed. I think I will just pick up on a point there. Transparency International have provided a response to us, stating the Welsh Government should appoint an independent adviser 'through a transparent process, removed from the…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
Okay. Sorry, Rhianon, back to you.
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
Rhianon, before you come to your next question, can I just come in on a very quick supplementary, if I may? Because it's become custom and practice for the standards committee in the Senedd, over a number of terms, to produce reports calling for the…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
Can I come in on—
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
Thank you. I'll bring in Rhianon Passmore, please.
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
Thank you very much indeed. Can I bring in Natasha Asghar, please?
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
Yes, please, and your earlier offer to share confidentially the developing document for our comment. I'll now invite other Members to develop our lines of questioning with you, starting with Mike Hedges. So, over to you, Mike.
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
Of course, it should be a living document, but it should, in my view—and, obviously, the committee may share my view or not; we'll discuss that later in private—be publicly accountable and transparent. And in that context, in his consultation response…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
Thank you. I'm sure you'll appreciate that non-disclosure generates concerns that may not be merited, and therefore I'd suggest it is in everyone's interest for this to be fully in the public domain, provided it doesn't create risks for individuals in terms…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
Will the Welsh Government be publishing its Cabinet handbook, either in full or redacted form, given your statements, and, if so, when can we expect that to happen?
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
Diolch; thank you. I appreciate that you have a colleague who had been planning to attend, but, for genuine personal reasons, he's unable to be with us this morning. So, we thank you for, nonetheless, joining us today. As you might expect, we have a number of…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Evidence Session: Cabinet Manuals and the Ministerial Code
That takes us to our first session, which is on the Cabinet handbook and ministerial code. I'd be grateful if the participant of this meeting—our witness, who is known well to this committee—could formally identify himself and state his role for the record.
