, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
I think if you look, Mike, at what we did with electric shock collars, we've taken that approach. We banned them, didn't we? And we made it an offence to even attach one to a dog or a cat, and I think that's the sort of parallel we can use in relation to…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
I think I'll bring Bill in on this one.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
I don't think I can add any more than what I said about materials. Obviously, the materials that you would use to make a snare, for instance, can be used for other things. I mentioned wire, for instance—so, that could be used not just to make a snare. So, I…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
We did, again, look at that, and I know other countries have also looked at that, and I've had discussions with other Ministers. One of the things is—and you know yourself, Mike—it's very easy to make a snare, so would we then have to ban the materials that…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
So, as you said, Mike, the Bill amends the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, and that bans the use of snares and glue traps. As such, I think the penalties are in line and proportionate with the other offences that are in that Act.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
So, we did consider it, I think it's fair to say, but we decided on balance the Bill already contains the relevant powers to modify legislation that relates to CAP. And, obviously, as James has just set out very clearly, we'll exercise those powers when the…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
If they're affirmative procedures, yes.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
No, I think that will be—. We will make sure everybody's got the correct information and guidance that's needed, and it will be very clear. I'm trying to think of other legislation where I've had different dates. No, I don't think it causes confusion.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
That's right. So, certain provisions in Part 4, which relate to forestry, come in the day after we get Royal Assent, then there are some provisions around sustainable land management, Welsh Ministers to provide support, powers to modify legislation relating…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
As with data sharing or the carcass classification, for instance, the marketing standards again provide a framework for a marketing standards regime that, again, will allow Welsh Ministers to make provisions within the scope of those powers that can be…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
So, if you look at the tiers in the scheme—the three tiers—and then look at the four objectives in the Bill, I think, for me, it is very clear how we expect those two to marry up.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
I think that any legislation is quite difficult to understand, isn't it? We've tried to make it as simple as possible. Through the consultations, it has changed a lot. So, from that first consultation back in 2018 to where we are now, I hope that people, such…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
I don't think we can say any more, really, apart from Dorian's answer.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
The targets and the indicators will be part of that process going forward, so I don't think there's any necessity to have it in the Bill.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
I don't, but I will take some legal advice here.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
So, providing a power to make the regulations enables consultation and scrutiny to take place on the relevant provisions as and when they're required. So, before any enforcement provisions are made, they will be subject to the affirmative procedure again, so…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
So, what we will do is we will publish targets and we will publish indicators to make sure that it's very open and transparent. I think that's fair to say.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Shall I just come back on that, sorry?
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
So, one of the questions—. I'm probably going too much into policy now from this committee's point of view, but one of the things we were saying is, if you had a peat bog, for instance, and that ticked off one of the objectives in relation to ecosystem but it…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
No, I don't think it does, and I think one of the things that we've worked very hard on with the sustainable land management objectives is making sure that everything's complementary. There's no hierarchy with those objectives. I think it was really important…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
So, predominantly it is a framework Bill and, as you say, it's been a long time in being brought forward. So, that's why it's necessary not to have everything on the face of the Bill and to have those regulation-making powers in the Bill, and striking the…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
I do have sympathy, and I hear what you say about balance, and for me it's absolutely about being satisfied about the balance. Now, whether my satisfaction is the same as your satisfaction, of course, yes, I do have sympathy, but it is a significant balancing…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
I've announced my intention to continue with the basic scheme, as you know, until 2023, because obviously we need to provide support to our farmers as we work together to transition to the sustainable farming scheme. I've made it very clear that we won't…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
They're largely technical and procedural, so that's why we think that the negative procedure is correct there. They'll only be used, where necessary, to make changes to current detailed scheme rules that are currently contained in retained EU law.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Agriculture (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
It is, so today it closes, yes. It closes today. That's crept up on me. And we extended it. So, obviously, we've come to—. Today we will finish the co-design part, the engagement, and then we will go through now to bring the scheme forward, out to…
