, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
If it were escalated, they'd have to start the process.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
Yes.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
Yes, so, part of what will happen in the regulations is that we’ll set out the obligations on the developer to keep up to date the electronic portal that has the application on it and so on. That’s partly why we want to do it in regulations because we want to…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
So, this is a difficulty, because obviously the local planning authorities have jurisdiction over the land and it's not clear at all who has jurisdiction over the sea. So, putting an obligation on a local planning authority that happens to have some coastline…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
Yes. So, absolutely right, Delyth.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
So, we're a bit wary about this, if we're honest, because the requirements in the 2008 Act are developed alongside the local planning authority, so you're putting an additional burden on them to produce something. They're only have regard provisions, so…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
I'd also be very interested in the committee's views—. We're going to put it into secondary legislation, but I'd be very interested in the committee's views about what the formal pre-application process of consultation should be. So, what should the developer…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
Sorry, can I just add one thing to that?
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
[Inaudible.]—add one thing to that?
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
Honestly, Delyth, if the committee thinks there is something else we could do—. I just want to say that I very much want communities to have a powerful voice in this process, so I want them to be able to have their day in the limelight, I want them to be able…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
Yes. Thanks, Delyth. There will be two opportunities, and in reality, actually, probably more than two opportunities. So, we're going to enshrine a pre-application stage, where there's a consultation process associated with that. We will set that out in…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
I suppose the short answer to that, Janet, is that I'll be very interested in what the committee thinks of that. Infrastructure policy statements are done on the same basis that all Welsh Government processes for the preparation of policy documents are done…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
So, there isn't a TAN for windfarms.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
So, we think that we have a statutory plan, the Welsh national marine plan, in the sea, and we have a statutory plan in the form of the national development framework on land. In any planning lawyer's terms, in the inspector's terms, those are definitive…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
So, I think we don't agree that it's ambiguous.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
That's a very good question, Joyce, but nothing is set in stone ever. So, of course, as we speak, right now, we are working on updates to the TANs, for example. That is a continuous process. As things happen, a new TAN will come out. Everyone knows that we…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
No, I don't really agree with that, Janet. I don't disagree that it would be beneficial to have a spatial element in the marine plan. Separate to this process, we are working in another part of the Government on a set of policies that might begin to look like…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
We, very clearly, believe in a plan-led system of holistic documents. I don't think having a whole set of different documents for each particular theme is a good thing at all. We think that we've got a decent framework here. We've got the national development…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
It might. 'We don't know' is the answer to that.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
We don't have a position on that at the moment, Jenny. We need to have a proper look at what that actually means in practice. There are a whole pile of complexities there around just what exactly does that mean in practice. I'll be absolutely upfront with the…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
Are they going to produce it as a byproduct of something else? Well, that would be consented through whatever the something else is, so it would be captured. And what I was trying to say is that it's very hard—. We can't think of a scenario in which you're…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
Yes, but if somebody who's trying to produce hydrogen, or a local authority has somebody trying to produce hydrogen, they're going to produce hydrogen, and there are only two ways of doing that currently; they're going to attach it to a fossil fuel generator…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
So, what are we trying to do? Who is it that you're worried about in that scenario? So, somebody who's trying to produce—
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
Yes. So, the developer themselves can think, 'Oh, actually, do you know, we think this is quite a big deal, so we want it to be dealt with'. So, just for the complete picture. The hydrogen thing is quite interesting. I don't know if the committee has seen…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the Minister for Climate Change
Can I just back you up to the last question? I think it's important for the committee to understand as well that the developer can ask for it to be treated as a development—
