, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Well, those other elements aren't funded in the way that this mechanism suggests. So, there is no element that says that you have to provide a fund for literacy or numeracy or digital. That's not happening at present. It's part of the general funding system…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Well, that's the point that I was trying to make to Adam earlier, really. What this does is it creates a ring fence for funding in the future. I used the word 'distort'. I don't mean that in a pejorative sense, but it then affects, doesn't it, the other…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Well, there are—. I'm happy to write to the committee with more detail, but there are examples where duties are placed on Ministers for funding parts of the sector, in general terms. So, the post-16 sector in particular has definitions around reasonable…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
The answer is 'no', but if you look at—. I've tried to look at this in the context of what's in the explanatory memorandum, and you see references to outdoor learning, outdoor education, outdoor education centres, and then those that are licensed under the…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Well, yes, I do think so. If you have a Bill, and the purpose of the Bill is to meet an objective, then you do have to define that objective, and this Bill just doesn't do that. The only place where an element of definition is happening, as I mentioned just…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Well, the fact that you have a specific requirement to fund something happens in legislation sometimes anyway, but what it does is it creates a funding priority for this element of the budget in future. So the principle isn't something that we can oppose—it…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
In the financial context that we're in, creating a new financial requirement and a new duty to fund that is a challenge that goes beyond our ability. It would mean that the money that would come to fund this would come from another element of the education…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
No, not for the guidance, actually, but my argument was that the guidance is doing something in this Bill that it shouldn't. So, the fact that the guidance is not scrutinised I don't think is a problem, but, if you want required elements in the framework…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
I would agree with that analysis. I do think that it does that at the same time as the curriculum is still being introduced. Schools are currently implementing the new curriculum and that's often for the first time, within the first year or two. So, the…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
I would say that this is quite an unusual thing. So, you have the Bill, you have the code, and then you have the guidance, and we're discussing the guidance now. But the Bill, as you say, says two things: what could be put in guidance, which is fine, and what…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Yes. In fairness, I do think that's been consistent. If you have a requirement to review the code, I think it's important for that to be consistent with the elements that already exist in the legislation, and the proposal in this Bill is consistent in terms…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
I think I could make a stronger case for that, if I'm honest. But the question for us is: what is the code intended to deliver, isn't it? So, we already have a requirement in the curriculum—. There's an outdoor learning theme in the curriculum, isn't there?…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Well, there are already powers for schools to do that, under the existing legislation. So, schools who want to incorporate this into the curriculum absolutely have the powers to do that under the existing architecture. I just want to say, if I may, Chair…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
I think that would be sensible.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Well, the codes you've just been talking about, the first two of those—the what matters code and the progression code—took around three years to develop, and the RSE code took about two years. And the reason for that is good, because you obviously want to…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
The 2021 legislation contains provisions for specified codes to be published by Ministers, and they have, of course, been published. There are three of them: there's the 'what matters' code, there's the progression code, and there's the relationships and…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
The context for that requirement in the Bill—if I may just take a step back again—is that the explanatory memorandum imposes a duty on local authorities to provide this, which is not at all surprising, given that that's where the education functions are…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
I'm afraid I don't. The purpose of the Bill is to have a mechanism—as in the conversation we've just had—to deliver an increase in the provision of residential outdoor education, but then does not go on to define what residential outdoor education is, which I…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
That would require primary legislation in order to do that.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Yes.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
An offer that is not compulsory.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
I think it is more likely to be the case that the intention is as described in the explanatory memorandum, but the Bill doesn't achieve that aim.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Yes, exactly. I don't think that is intended. If it is intended to be a compelled approach, if you like, a mandatory approach, then there are existing arrangements and regulations that could deliver that outcome. There's a mechanism in the Bill, as some may…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
If we just take a step back, Chair, if we may, the explanatory memorandum and the objectives that it sets out for the Bill are at odds with what the Bill itself seeks to achieve, so it's a slightly more complex question than ordinarily it would be. The EM…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
I have, yes.
