, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
In the mainstream market, yes, absolutely.
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
—in terms of other financing available elsewhere, if I can put it like that. So, I think that's really important, that we continue to make as much patient capital available through the bank as possible. We've increased that quite significantly. From memory…
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
Yes. So, I think one of the things at the heart of that is that idea of patient capital, isn't it, which I think is the point you're alluding to—
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
Just to be clear, I don't have a confusion about the bank's current processes; the point I'm really making is that it isn't clear to me that they are not sufficient to address the point that the independent panel is being proposed as a solution to. And if…
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
Well, my understanding is that that case is the subject of an existing complaint to the bank, so, obviously, in light of that, it's not appropriate for me to comment.
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
Yes. So, I guess my take on it is, my understanding is, that the bank has refreshed its complaints procedure anyway over the last 12 months or so, complies with the UK-wide financial ombudsman's requirements, so I think that's important for us to note. What I…
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
I should say, probably, just in defence of the bank, that it is a policy choice on the part of Ministers to make that support available. The question then is, 'What's the best way of doing that?' And I think it's clear the bank has the expertise to do that in…
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
Well, I'll ask Jo, perhaps, to come in on some of this, but I think it is important to bear in mind that one of the tasks that we task the bank with, if you like, is to provide support to the Government's broader objectives, so, in any number of ways…
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
Yes.
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
Well, I'm not aware of specific concerns around that. It is really important that we always make sure that the people who are appointed as non-executive directors are really adding value to that company. That's when it works at its best. Sometimes that may…
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
Well, it's a matter of company law as much as anything, but it's also right.
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
It's a really interesting and complex question, that, isn't it, because it's about human expectation and perception as much as anything else. I know from my own experience; in my prior life before coming here, I worked for a company that did take investment…
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
Yes, we do. I think it's important to have the mix, and, as you absolutely rightly say, it isn't something that is suitable for every business that wants support. Not every business is a company. I think it obviously will not be applicable in every case. I do…
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
My understanding is that the bank is the biggest equity investor in Welsh businesses. The level of equity investment is going up. It's around £15.5 million a year at the moment. There are some good examples of successful equity investment. It's a more recent…
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
When we have clarity around when a thematic review might take place, we'll discuss that with the bank. But I think it's clear to all of us that the prior question is resolving the classification question, which is obviously quite a significant question in…
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
Well, I'm sure that would be helpful if that is the position.
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
Well, we had two reviews leading up to the development bank being established—one in 2013, and then the task and finish group, which Professor Dylan Jones-Evans himself led, in 2014, which led to the establishment of the bank in 2017. Since the establishment…
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
Well, as I said to the Chair earlier, I can't give confidence of that being resolved immediately, but we are working as hard as we can. We hope the Treasury will help us find a solution to it.
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
After we've done the classification resolution.
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
I'm telling you that the pause was there to make sure we introduced the self-assessment model, which is that interim stage of assessment before we do a tailored review. That's in place at the moment, as I understand it. Once that's complete, we'll have a…
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
Well, it's not so much a change of heart; it's that the process that has been put in place since we wrote the remit letter has, I think, introduced a new assessment stage before a tailored review is undertaken. So, the context for this is that the body that…
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
I didn't catch that.
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
Well, the next remit letter will be issued at the start of the next Senedd term. So, there are some things that we will want to do during this Senedd term to prepare for that new remit letter. So, there are some reviews that we might consider doing in order…
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
The bank is already supporting the Government's ambition to increase employee-owed businesses, so that's positive, and has brought in expertise at a board level, specifically in relation to employee buy-outs, so I think that's very positive. In some senses…
, Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee
Development Bank of Wales inquiry: Panel 5 - Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language
Sure. So, ministerially, there are meetings twice a year—they've tended to be twice a year and it's my plan to continue that—with the chair and the chief executive. Officials meet more regularly. I'll ask perhaps Duncan or perhaps Jo—I don't know which of you…
