, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 6
Yes, Roger Thomas has indicated.
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 6
Okay. Who'd like to start? Councillor Thomas.
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 6
Prynhawn da. Welcome back to the Equality and Social Justice Committee, where we are continuing our inquiry into the governance of fire and rescue services. Our sixth panel is—. We have Councillor Dylan Rees, chair of the North Wales Fire and Rescue…
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Motion under Standing Order 17.42(vi) to exclude the public from items 4 and 7 of the meeting, and from item 1 of the meeting on 18 March 2024
The committee will be resuming our inquiry at 3 o’clock, when we will indeed be hearing from the chairs and chief officers of at least two of the three—well, all three—the two existing, or were existing, fire authorities and the chairs of these organisations…
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 5
Okay. Thank you very much, Mr Peters. We’ll obviously send you a transcript so that you have the opportunity to correct any anomalies.
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 5
Fine. Okay, I have no further questions from any Members, so I’d like to thank you very much indeed for your evidence today, and we look forward to hearing the exact date of the report you referred to. We'll obviously send you a—. Oh, you had a further…
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 5
Thank you very much. Altaf Hussain had a further question.
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 5
Okay. So, are these things that you're likely to cover in the report that you plan to publish some time in the summer?
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 5
Okay. What was interesting in our evidence session with the Fire Brigades Union, who are the main union for the operational staff, was that they fessed up that they had resisted such an idea 20 years ago, but that in the last 10 years they've come round to…
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 5
Thank you. I just want to go back to this issue of the three emergency services. Clearly, the police service sits on the jagged edge of the criminal justice system, which is not devolved at the moment, and therefore it looks difficult for either the Senedd or…
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 5
Thanks. Before we move on to our next speaker, I just want to point out to all of us that the Deputy Minister has issued a written statement while we've been meeting announcing independent reviews into mid and west Wales as well as north Wales, just so that…
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 5
Thank you. Ken Skates.
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 5
There is a major audit gap here in the sense that the serious issues that have been exposed by the culture review have not been cited either by yourselves or by the chief fire adviser—we interviewed him earlier—prior to the whistleblower coming forward and…
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 5
It avoids duplication. Is that right?
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 5
The well-being of future generations Act, yes?
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 5
Thank you. I'll call in Altaf Hussain, who I know has some further questions on what you actually do in your current regime of inspection. Altaf.
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 5
Thank you.
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 5
Thank you.
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 5
Okay. To summarise, the problem that seems to have happened is that individuals haven't wanted to come forward publicly, and the top level of the organisation has said, 'Well, there's nothing we can do unless we know about these individuals', which displays a…
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 5
Yes. The qualifications for being a critical friend are always a difficult one. Can I bring in Sioned Williams at this point?
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 5
Okay.
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 5
Thank you. Jane Dodds wanted to come in. Sorry—go ahead.
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 5
Okay. Thank you. I'd now like to call in Sarah Murphy.
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 5
Okay. So, what does that tell us about—? The fact—. You're following the money, but there must have been some performance issues that might have caused concern, for example, around sickness absence, which you'd expect to be manifested from some of the issues…
, Equality and Social Justice Committee
Governance of Fire and Rescue Services: panel 5
Okay. So, you had no insight into any of the really serious issues that occurred until they were aired by ITV by a whistleblower.
