, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Just to remind ourselves, the primary purpose of this is to make sure we've got as consistent a procurement regime as England, and the problem is that, at the moment, we don't know the detail of what that procurement will look like, and so what we need is…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
We don't know where the regulations are going to sit yet. We don't know. We can't do that work that you mentioned until we know where the regulations are going to land in Westminster. So, until we know that, there's no point consulting until we know what to…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
So, that will be the regulations. People will be responding to the regulations, so that's when it's important to ensure that business has its voice heard in that regard.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
I think it's 12 weeks, as usual.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
I don't think so, because we have anticipated the kind of people who would be affected by this Bill, and we have consulted with them informally—so, clearly, the NHS services obviously, the unions, the health unions, the third sector, local councils. So, those…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
They're going to get there before us, yes.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
So, the health and care Bill received Royal Assent in April 2022. The PSR—so, the provider selection regime—regulations are going to be laid before Parliament, it's anticipated, fairly soon, and then the regulations on that are expected to come into force in…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Yes, during the course of this—. Yes, so it's likely to be only numbering or something like that.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
I hear that, and it is something that we're aware of, but we're fairly confident it's going to land in that place. Dafydd, is that—?
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
It's not ideal, but we're fairly confident that it will land not far off where we are at the moment. It is getting to its final Stages. Again, what we're anxious to avoid is a long time period where we will not be able to provide the kinds of service…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
We are taking a different approach to Scotland. You'll be aware that Scotland is trying to keep as much of their rules alongside the rules of the EU, whereas, actually, we are now going to be moving towards trying to keep a level playing field with England…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
I think NHS procurement is fairly limited, it's fairly unique. The kind of people who are looking at this will know where to go for that information, and they'll know in future that they'll just go straight to the NHS (Wales) Act and look at what's been…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
I'd argue that it's the opposite of that. I would argue that, actually, what's going to happen is if you're interested in procurement in the NHS in future, you just go to the NHS (Wales) Act. That's where you go. You don't have to go to this Bill—it's done…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
We did look at it very seriously, but it wasn't possible.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Well, it's done and dusted. That's the difference. This is going to be, 'Right, we're going to disapply health from the UK Procurement Act.' That's going to be one bit—right, that's done—and then we're going to put a creation power into the NHS Act. That's…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
We've explored every avenue, if I'm honest. We found that it didn't sit comfortably with other Bills, and that's why we've taken this route. We did explore that as an option and found that it wouldn't have worked.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Well, yes, but the outcomes that we're talking about will—. The framework that is within the social partnership Bill is a way of working, whereas what we're talking about is something that will lead to some quite technical changes when it comes to procurement.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
The social partnership and public procurement Bill is mostly about organisational principles, and this is about how you do procurement. So, it's a very different approach. That's the main reason why we're doing that. I don't know, Dafydd, is there anything—?
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
That's right. You're the constitution committee; you know that there are Bills lining up, and to try and sneak a little gap—. This is why this is a very, very short Bill, as you'll be aware. And this is a framework Bill, so the key thing to remember is that…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
The Department of Health and Social Care consulted on their proposals last spring, and, since then, my officials have been spending their time consulting with the NHS, in terms of 'Right, what does this mean for us? What do we need to do? How would any…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
They're certainly not obstructing, no.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Well, they haven't particularly helped us out on it.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
I think it's really important to just give a little background in terms of the context, if you don't mind, because it's quite a technical Bill and it can get quite anoraky, so I'm just going to try and translate it into something that is a little bit more…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Yes, it absolutely is, because obviously health is a devolved competence, and this procurement refers to health.
, Plenary
Topical Questions
Thanks, Russell. Obviously, we are always keen, in the Welsh Labour Government, to work in social partnership, and I would suggest that we actually have a very good and constructive relationship with all of the unions. Obviously, there are times when we…
