, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
Where does the International Rugby Board sit in that? Where does UEFA and FIFA and all the international bodies sit and so on? But I do think there is a conversation to be had about whether there is anything in that space beyond national governing bodies…
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
There are too many other factors in play, and I think I said this in the Chamber when this was raised.
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
Well, it's early days, isn't it? Again, I'm aware of the calls that have been made to have an independent body introduced. I'm not sure that is the answer.
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
Delyth. Can I—? Sorry, Chair. Can Jason just come in and say something?
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
Absolutely.
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
—as far as that is concerned. I think there's an awful lot more still to be done, but it sends a very clear signal that that is being taken seriously.
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
That is exactly what I have done. If I tell you that I had a meeting with the WRU in January, so before the BBC meeting was broadcast—. I was introduced to Ieuan Evans for the first time in that meeting. They came to a meeting in my office—their…
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
So, exactly. That is exactly what I have done.
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
I'm just—. I'm trying to answer your question, Alun. In terms of what I can legally do, I can do no more legally with the WRU than I could do with, say, Ford of Bridgend, who are—. But Ministers would have meetings with Ford of Bridgend or Tata Steel or…
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
No, no, no, but in terms of what I can direct and what I can instruct—
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
And I think that's a very valid challenge. What I've set out are what the legal constraints are, because they are real, and they are—
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
Yes.
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
So, all I can say, Jenny, is that the WRU did go through that very robust process from Sport Wales, or otherwise they would not have been in receipt of that funding. That doesn't mean to say that everything was right, because, clearly, it wasn't. But I…
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
Yes, absolutely, and I think that was the process that Steffan just set out. This capability framework is exactly that, and it actually goes far beyond that economic contract that you talk about.
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
So, Sport Wales is an arm’s-length body. So, they receive funding from the Welsh Government to allocate to organisations, including the WRU. But they are arm’s length from Welsh Government, so their strategies, their provision, their decisions around funding…
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
That's a Sport Wales process.
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
So, with Sport Wales funding, there is a very detailed process that an organisation has to go through to qualify for funding. Again, if I Steffan to explain that, about the process that Sport Wales go through, because I think that will answer the question…
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
But they did sign an economic agreement along the lines that you're suggesting, and it is part of the contract that they have with Sport Wales, and I think Steffan can explain that in a bit more detail.
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
As I said to you before, there isn't a direct financial relationship with the WRU as an organisation. There are two things that we have with the WRU. One is—which you're well aware of, because, again, it's been in the public domain—there was a loan to the…
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
And I can't comment any further than I have already, Heledd, because I haven't seen that report. But, as far as I am aware, all of the recommendations were around the development of the game; they didn't specifically refer to the cultural aspects of women in…
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
Well, there are two things about that. One is that we did have—. So, Steffan did see a copy of the report. We weren't given a copy, we weren't allowed to take it away, we weren't given much time to read it, but he had the opportunity to quickly look at the…
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
I was doing that, Heledd. I don't want you to be of the view that, because they didn't publish, I wasn't asking them to do so. But I couldn't instruct them.
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
It was very difficult, Heledd. I can only go back to saying there are constraints when you're a Government Minister. I did what I could, in the best way that I could, with the powers that were available to me as a Government Minister, given that I had nothing…
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
Informally, but I can't act on informal—you know, things informally. I'm a Government Minister. Things have to be reported to me or referred to me formally, and I did make that very clear.
, Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
Allegations surrounding the Welsh Rugby Union: Evidence session with the Welsh Government
Not formally, no.
