, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
Because there is no definition of what a woman is and what a woman isn't on the face of the Bill, doesn't that risk undermining the true purpose of the Bill?
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
To declare whether they're a man or a woman.
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
Is there any other gender quota system in the world where people are allowed to determine for themselves at the point of declaration whether they consider themselves to be a woman or not and are asked in this way, 'Are you a woman or not a woman?' rather…
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
Can I just get this right: if someone self-identifies as a woman, they are entitled to declare themselves to be a woman for the purposes of an election? Is that right? And what happens with gender-fluid individuals who regard themselves as gender fluid, which…
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
Well, that's for me to determine, isn't it, as far as the Bill is concerned.
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
With respect, though, Minister, I'm asking you specifically what would prevent me from making a declaration that I was a woman for the purposes of the election, because there are people who describe themselves as gender fluid, aren't there, that might declare…
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
So, if, for example, I decided to state that I was a woman for the purposes of the election, what sanction would I face?
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
But you're not asking them to state their gender, because if I was asked my gender, I would say I'm a male. You're asking people to state whether they are woman or not a woman, which is quite a distinction. Why that specific test?
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
The Bill makes provision for people to make a declaration at the time that they are nominated as a candidate to state whether they are a woman or whether they're not a woman. Do you want to tell us why that approach has been taken, rather than a…
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
Of course, no one's objecting to diversity.
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
But 100 per cent women on all lists would be acceptable under the Bill. Obviously, anything above 50 per cent men on lists would not be acceptable in the Bill. So, there's a significant imbalance there, isn't there? That's the point I'm making. Would you not…
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
I appreciate the points you made about horizontal and vertical, but what I think people are finding difficult to understand is why the zipping isn't being applied. They're finding it difficult to see why it would be acceptable to have an all-women list, while…
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
But you accept that what you're permitting—. It would be perfectly permissible to have a list of six women, but obviously not permissible to have a list of six men. The maximum number of men that can be on any list is, obviously, going to be three, if it's a…
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
Yes. You've referred quite a bit in evidence there to thresholds of 50 per cent in other Parliaments, which, obviously, I see, and I can see the benefits of that in terms of delivering a more gender-balanced Parliament. But the quota system, or the approach…
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
Given the differences of legal opinion on this issue between Welsh Government lawyers, who appear to be the standout, versus everybody else, wouldn't it be sensible to put beyond doubt the powers of the Senedd and to ask for the consent of the UK Government…
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
Well, in terms of seeking powers to be able to introduce quotas, potentially.
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
The reason I ask is because, obviously, there has been previous correspondence between the Welsh Government and the UK Government on the competency issue around the introduction of gender quotas, hasn't there?
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
And on competency?
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
Have there been any discussions between the Welsh Government and the UK Government on this competency matter, and if so, can you tell us what—?
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
Can I ask one further question?
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
It was due to be published in December.
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
Can I ask a question, then? Why was there a delay in the presentation of this Bill?
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
And that is the view of all Welsh Government lawyers, is it, and the advice that you've received?
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
But, Minister, with respect, it is the time, isn't it? Because there was a recommendation in the special purpose committee report that the Welsh Government should take 'appropriate steps to ensure that...recommendations on Senedd reform...are not put at undue…
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
And of course, it's not just the test about purpose, for which we are—. As I say, it's a noble purpose to want to have the Senedd to be a more representative Senedd and a more diverse Senedd. It's whether this impinges on a reserved matter. I've already…
