, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
The three of you now—you're not aware at this point as to whether a formal leak inquiry was commissioned.
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
I'd like to return, actually, to some of the matters that I've raised. I've had some time to consider some of the responses, and I'd like to save time, really, by not having to write to you all with a whole host of follow-up questions, so if we're able to…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
Okay. That concludes my questions. Thank you very much.
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
For clarity, I think it's a remuneration board policy, which I think the accounting officer of the Senedd is responsible for carrying out. It's not a Senedd Commission role. I speak as a Senedd Commissioner, so I should get that bit right, anyway.
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
Given the decision by the remuneration board in its determination that no Senedd resources, including the buildings themselves, can be used for party-political purposes, and that has been underlined on several occasions to party groups, how are political…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
Physically, are they held always in Cathays Park? Are they sometimes held here, in this building?
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
How often are political Cabinets held? Are they regular?
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
Finally, there is a reference in the UK Cabinet manual to political Cabinet meetings, which I'll sort of paraphrase or summarise here, but essentially meetings that are without officials, and the conclusions—the discussions are not necessarily minuted, and it…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
In providing the advice that you gave that was subsequently written up by a colleague, did you have all the information relevant to this case that is now in the public domain, for example the extent of the donations and the loan by the Development Bank of…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
The decision to publish, is that a decision now—? It would've been a decision by the former First Minister, but it now falls to the First Minister himself to decide whether to publish that.
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
But it hasn't so far been published.
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
Could I ask you, then, about your advice to the former First Minister that Vaughan Gething had not broken the ministerial code? That's in the public domain that such advice was provided. Was that advice provided by you in writing?
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
One would expect, though, as director of propriety and ethics, it would be fairly extraordinary if you were not aware whether a report had been produced on the ministerial code.
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
Let's ask a very focused factual question, then: was a report provided on any breach of the ministerial code by Hannah Blythyn?
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
Just in terms of the ministerial code, you generally are directly involved, I think, in investigations and, indeed, in the case of Dawn Bowden, your report was published. Did you provide any advice to the First Minister in relation to a breach of the code by…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
Yes. So, the UK Government manual has some extensive information on whistleblowing. Well, it refers, actually—I apologise. The section on leak inquiries does reference the section of the civil service directory that covers whistleblowing, which, among other…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
It's a complex area, I think we can agree on that, but we'd be very grateful to receive that further advice from you, and some clarity, in this decidedly grey area. Could I just ask, you chair the whistleblowing panel?
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
So, it would be legitimate under some circumstances for public resources, the use of a civil servant in most cases, the head of security, to investigate the sharing of information that was not in a Government context, so a minute of the Labour Party group…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
Right, okay. So, an unauthorised disclosure would consist of either the disclosure of the actual document itself, and then it's fairly clear, isn't it, or disclosing the information that's contained within the document, presumably in another format. I know…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
If I build on Mike Hedges's set of questions, really, which I think is about understanding the nature of information and whether confidentiality applies to it—. Government documents—and I had some experience of this during the co-operation agreement—are…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
So, Mr Richards, you are the director of propriety and ethics of the Welsh Government. Forgive me in my simplicity here, but I would have expected the director of propriety and ethics at least to have knowledge of this matter. Are you saying that the only…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
I don't think that the issue of sensitivity—. I don't understand the issue of sensitivity. It's certainly within the remit of this committee to ask questions in relation to leak inquiries—we've already established that. A predecessor committee had extensive…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
The established procedures are set out in some greater detail in the documents referenced in the UK Cabinet manual. What are the established procedures in the case of the Welsh Government in terms of unauthorised disclosures or leaks of information, and where…
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
But the First Minister, in referencing it, presumably there is—
, Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee
Session on the Cabinet Manual and Access Talks
Let's delve a little bit deeper into the similarities and differences between the Cabinet manual and the Cabinet handbook, and also the relationship of the handbook to other processes, procedures and policies, and look at one particular area, which is covered…
