Cyfarfod Llawn

Rydw i wedi trafod Twf Swyddi Cymru+ gyda'r Dirprwy Weinidog, gan gynnwys y pwysau y mae darparwyr yn ei reoli wrth iddyn nhw ymateb i'r galw parhaus am gymorth.

Thank you, Cabinet Minister. As you are aware, we are facing a not in education, employment or training crisis in Wales, with everything that that means for young people's life chances, their employment and, of particular concern to me, their mental health and well-being. However, we're not now just facing the prospect of cuts in further education funding, but, as I've highlighted to you in correspondence, providers of services to young people through Jobs Growth Wales+, which is effectively a post-16 provision, are also seeing significant cuts. I'm grateful to you for your correspondence, but I have written back to you explaining that ACT, which has been praised across this Chamber for their transformative work with young people, has currently gone from a confirmed contract value of £18.8 million last year to £13.9 million in 2026-27.

That is a 26 per cent cut. On the basis of these figures, can we accept that the Plaid Cymru Government is committed to tackling the NEET crisis, and, if that is the case, what are you going to do to reverse these cuts and ensure that all learners have an opportunity to have their education?

I am grateful to the Member for her question, and, as I said just now, I have obviously had discussions already with Cabinet colleagues to see what more can be done within the resources that we have. I think it is certainly the case that we are seeing, not just in Wales but across the UK, a huge issue in terms of the labour market. It has obviously led to the Milburn review, and I agree, actually, with Alan Milburn that working on the supply side, working on employability support programmes, is not going to be enough to deal with the scale of the problem, because the problem is really on the demand side largely. That's where we also need to focus, and I think that, really, the scale of the problem means that we do need a scale of intervention on a similar level to the one that we saw back in 1997, a 'New Deal' for the unemployed. So, we are looking forward to the final report of the Milburn review. We hope the UK Government will inject the level of investment that is needed, not just in Wales but across the UK, to address the problem that young people and others

that young people and others are facing because of the nature of the labour market need at the moment.

Cabinet Minister, I welcome your commitment to extend Jobs Growth Wales+ to consider the incentives for employers, because young people leaving the programme need apprenticeships and jobs to move into.

I recently met with Williams Electrical (Cymru) Ltd, a Carmarthenshire firm that wants to take on more apprentices, but says it can no longer afford to. Under the reformed qualifications, a first-year electrical apprentice without the relevant foundation qualification must undertake broader construction training and skills. The concern for the firm is that the additional college stay in the first year leaves just three weeks on site whilst they're having to pay a full week's wages for that apprentice.

Now, Carmarthenshire's over-65 population has grown by almost a fifth, while apprenticeship starts across Wales are at their lowest since records began. Yet electrical contractors are generally excluded from the construction industry training board apprenticeship grants available to other construction employers. So, will you discuss with the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education how those incentives could include targeted support for smaller electrical firms to cover that additional college stay so that businesses like Williams can train the electricians that Wales desperately needs? Diolch.

The Deputy Minister has been very clear in his view that apprenticeships are absolutely central to enabling young people to achieve their potential and also for us to drive the kind of economic development that we want to see across every sector and across every community. We'll certainly very much welcome those ideas and take them up in discussion with the Deputy Minister in the context of the work that is already ongoing through the skills audit and following the skills summit a few weeks ago.

Cabinet Minister, I heard your response to Lynne Neagle a moment ago, rightfully outlining the challenge around NEETs, but you need to acknowledge that there's a particular problem here in Wales. In England, the numbers have actually dropped in the last 12 months to 13.3 per cent, whereas in Wales, numbers have shot up to 17 per cent of 16 to 25-year-olds not in work, training or education.

It's vitally important that we get those young people into those positions as quickly as possible. As you know, Jobs Growth Wales+ makes a big difference in that, and you do have already the policy levers to be able to make a difference in this area, and it's about prioritising whether or not you think it's an important matter for you to tackle. I think in particular in my own constituency of Fflint Wrecsam, that Coleg Cambria run a fantastic summer school with Jobs Growth Wales+, where 100 young people took part in that summer school—a record number so far.

So, Cabinet Minister, will you commit today, for the sake of the 16 to 25-year-olds, to ensure that this is a priority and that you do use the policy levers you already have to ensure that young people have a fighting chance?

Where I agree with the Member is that the existing interventions in Wales were not working, and the actual outcomes were worse. And as a result of that, we have commissioned, as a Government, work by Professor Melanie Jones, one of the leading figures in labour market economics, to understand, 'Well, let's look across the world at what does work in order to inform our own use of the policy levers that we do have.'

But I should say that the consensus view, which is emerging through the work of the Milburn review, and economists that are looking at this, is that the supply-side approach, which is basically saying, 'There's an unemployed person here, if we can make them employable, then they can get into the labour market'—the increasing consensus view is that that's incorrect, largely. The problem is on the demand side. The jobs are not being generated to a sufficient degree to actually create those job opportunities, and there are particular structural problems in terms of entry-level jobs.

That's why I think sector-led approaches, the likes of which we've begun to see, haven't we, in recent weeks and months—the retail sector, the construction sector, coming forward and making commitments to create those entry-level jobs—I think that those kind of approaches are likely to have a better effect. The opportunity for us in Wales is to work with sectors—and we've just heard some specific examples in an earlier question as well—to provide those entry-level jobs, and yes, make sure then that our training skills systems are working with employers

our training skills systems are working with employers for real job opportunities that are going to be created.

Mae'r Dirprwy Weinidog a minnau'n trafod yn rheolaidd sut y gall sgiliau, cymorth cyflogadwyedd a phrentisiaethau arfogi pobl ifanc ledled Cymru i lwyddo mewn economi sy'n newid yn gyflym. Roedd y materion hyn yn nodwedd o'n huwchgynhadledd sgiliau'r dyfodol hynod lwyddiannus yn gynharach y mis hwn, ac maen nhw’n ganolog i'm cenhadaeth cynhyrchiant.

Diolch, Cabinet Minister. In Blaenau Gwent, nearly three in 10 residents aged 16 and over have no formal qualifications, which is the highest proportion in the whole of Wales, while neighbouring Caerphilly has the fourth highest. I've seen first-hand the vital role that organisations such as ACT Training has in Ebbw Vale. They play such an important role in supporting young people facing really complex needs, and barriers to education, training and employment.

For many of these young people, progress can mean overcoming mental health challenges, gaining qualifications after leaving school without any, finding secure housing, or even turning away from crime as well. They need to have a system that can respond to the full range of barriers they face as an individual, and gives them the best opportunity as well to fulfil their potential.

So, Cabinet Minister, how will the Welsh Government ensure we have a fit-for-purpose system, with the flexibility and stability needed to support young people to fulfil their potential, particularly those facing extreme barriers?

I am grateful to the Member for her question. I think that, certainly, we acknowledge the importance of programmes like Jobs Growth Wales. We've committed to continuing that next year, even as, as I said, we begin the work of understanding what more we can do, and what can we do differently, because, even though these programmes have made a contribution, they have not solved the problem; the problem has got worse. And so, we need to find out what is missing, what additional can we do.

And as I was saying, I think, the growing view among those who work in and analyse this field is that we need to work more on the demand side, to generate the jobs, and also, we need to have a place-based approach. And so, I think you're absolutely right to focus on the specific needs, which will be different in Blaenau Gwent than other places. The opportunities will be different. The employers that we can work with to create particular sectoral opportunities will be different.

So, it's that combination, not just of the existing approaches, but blending them with new interventions which are demand-led and placed based. That's they way, in a holistic fashion, I think, that we can provide a durable and comprehensive solution which will deliver hope to young people and to communities across Wales.

Minister, traditionally, entry-level roles have allowed young people to gain the experience needed to progress into more skilled employment. But AI now threatens to automate some of those opportunities.

What assessment, therefore, has the Welsh Government made of the impact of AI on entry-level employment opportunities for young people in Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni, and what discussions has the Cabinet Minister had with the Deputy Minister for skills about ensuring that training provision in our constituency prepares young people for the jobs likely to be available in five to 10 years' time?

I'm really grateful to the Member for an absolutely vitally important question, which I think is in the forefront of all of our minds at the moment, isn't it? I think it's certainly true that AI is one of the factors that is driving this unique level of disruption that is going on in the labour market. And I think that it is a complex picture, and it's fair to say that the evidence is still emerging. We have—. We were discussing this at the jobs summit, and we need to have a better understanding and better data. So, there is a live data set which actually looks at what is happening in the American labour market

looks at what's happening in the American labour market. Month by month, we can see what's happening, and we can see that, particularly, it's young people that are being disrupted most in terms of higher levels of unemployment. It's particularly—. We can even be more specific: it's 22 to 25-year-olds, who are facing a 20 per cent higher level of unemployment than was previously the case. Now, we need to get that kind of data here and we need to understand how is this playing out across different sectors and across different geographies. That work is ongoing, and I hope to be able to update Senedd Members more in this regard because I think it's one of the central challenges that we're facing at the moment.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Minister, as discussed recently in this Chamber, 500 jobs in Admiral are at risk of redundancy. These are real Welsh people, real Welsh families and actual livelihoods that are now facing uncertainty. Many of those jobs are based across our constituencies in Swansea, Cardiff and Newport. And now we learn that, while Welsh workers face the prospect of losing their jobs, some roles—the majority of those 500 jobs—are going to be outsourced to India. Now, this is a massive slap in the face to all those men and women that have worked hard, paid their taxes, only for their jobs to be sent abroad, and is a firm rebuke to this Government's economic credentials. This should be a massive wake-up call for this Welsh Government. So, Minister, what direct action are you taking to stop skilled Welsh jobs being shipped overseas, to protect workers here in Wales, and to ensure that companies benefiting from operating in this country have a genuine incentive to keep those jobs here? Diolch.

Clearly, this was very disappointing news to hear and, obviously, very worrying for the workers and their families involved. I've met with Admiral, and, indeed, with Legal & General as well, to see what we could do—first of all to understand what we could do in the context of those that are at risk of losing their jobs, and we obviously stand ready to do what we can in that regard, but also to understand more about the reasons for these decisions and what we could do, working with these companies and with their sectors, to create additional jobs as well.

Now, in that conversation, Admiral confirmed to us that they are going to retain their Cardiff and Swansea offices. In my conversation with Legal & General—and, indeed, with Admiral as well—we did talk about what are the growth opportunities, where we as a Government can work with the companies and with the sectors in order to identify growth possibilities, because we still retain important strengths in these sectors, and it's important not to lose sight of that despite this obviously disappointing news.

Thank you. I thought I was going to get called—excuse me.

Minister, thank you for that, but as we move on, unlike Plaid's new energy quango, North sea drilling could unlock billions for the UK economy, support thousands of jobs and strengthen our energy security. As Reform UK's Richard Tice has been calling for for years, the Jackdaw project has now been given the green light, and, as we know on this side of the Chamber, that's nowhere near enough. Now, Reform believes the United Kingdom should extract every last drop of oil out of the North sea, and gas, to support our economy, protect jobs and reduce our reliance on imports. Instead, Plaid wants to waste taxpayers' money on another quango, and renewable energy schemes offer absolutely no guarantee of cheaper bills to the men and women of our country. Minister, let's get real for a moment and focus on the action that will actually make a difference to people's pockets here in Wales. What steps are you taking to press Westminster to issue new exploration licences, unlock our North sea resources, boost our economy and bring down household bills for people across Wales?

Look, the real opportunity for us—. If you want to talk about energy off our shores, the real opportunity for us in Wales, it's in our floating offshore wind sector, it's in our tidal stream and tidal lagoon industries. That's where the real opportunity

That's where the real opportunity, in terms of jobs, is. Let's focus there, because there are important messages where it would be useful if we could speak with one voice to urge the UK Government, for example, to realise the strategic value of marine energy, of floating offshore wind, of tidal. We have some unique geographic assets. No, they don't involve fossil fuels, but they are definitely sectors of the future that not only will be important in energy terms, but, if we get this right, will create massive supply chain opportunities to build out manufacturing at our ports in Port Talbot and in ports across the whole of Wales. Let's focus there, where the real opportunity is for Wales, rather than be distracted by issues and questions that are not our responsibility and won't directly benefit us.

Thank you Minister. The biggest word in that statement I picked up on was 'if' we get this right. That's a very big 'if' indeed.

Moving on, today, Reform UK will lead a debate calling for a ban on face coverings used to conceal identities and intimidate the public. Wales has become a country where criminals can hide their faces while law-abiding citizens are frightened to walk down their own high streets. Across Wales, hard-working businesses are struggling, shopkeepers face intimidation and theft, customers are being driven away, and once thriving town centres are suffering, leading to damage to our economic outlook. All too often, those responsible are hiding behind balaclavas, riding illegal e-bikes, making it harder for the police to identify them. Minister, we both know that enough is enough. Our high streets belong to families, shoppers and hard-working businesses, not masked thugs. We know this matter is reserved for the police, but councils across Wales are considering using their powers to ban face coverings, including balaclavas. We in Reform will do everything we can to support them. Minister, do you agree that Reform UK's face coverings ban would curb anti-social behaviour and help protect Welsh town centres?

How is this relevant to this particular question? This is an attempt, once again, to use this platform to sow division. Speak to the shop workers' union, there's a very real issue in terms of the abuse that they face, meet with the unions and understand the proposals that they are bringing forward to actually make a difference to those workers' lives—not constantly use this place as a platform just to play politics and sow division and hate.

We've been talking about data, and of course data centres have been in the news quite a lot recently. The planning Minister recently responded to a written question of mine stating that the current system for approving data centres has robust checks and balances in place to ensure their environmental and community impacts are properly considered. Does the Cabinet Minister agree with the planning Minister? If the current system is robust for all data centre applications, why is his Government writing a data centre framework?

What we've said is that we are bringing forward a general policy framework around data centres. I will leave it to the planning Minister to address the planning dimension of that. Technology changes all the time. Because of the number of dimensions involved in relation to data centres—their potential contribution to the economy, but also the need to make sure that legitimate questions around land use, around use of water and use of energy are addressed properly—it is sensible for us to have a framework, as most other countries are doing at the moment, to ensure that we maximise the benefits and the opportunities, but also mitigate against any potential downside were a framework of that nature not put in place.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Cabinet Minister, our portfolio covers connectivity across Wales, and good broadband and strong mobile signal is certainly a huge component of that. Ofcom found that much of Wales has the poorest broadband provision in the UK. Wales has an average broadband speed

average broadband speed of 6.5 Mb compared with the UK average of 7.5. Twelve local authorities across Wales are classified as having the poorest broadband provision with some areas receiving speeds of only around 2 Mb. I've spoken so many times about this with the previous Government, and it is fair to say that in rural areas, parts of my constituency of Bangor Conwy Môn, some residents are still facing extremely poor broadband connectivity. Now, we need to see increased emphasis—

Can we have the question, please?

Yes. We need to see a greater emphasis on funding. How will you address these not-spots?

I totally accept the premise of the question that this is vitally important for social and economic reasons. Of course, it's fundamentally a UK Government responsibility, and so one of the things that we absolutely need to do is to get them to deliver faster on the promises that they've made through Project Gigabit and others.

In every infrastructure investment that the UK Government makes, it's always us in Wales that are at the wrong end of a very long line. And it shouldn't be the case, actually, because digital infrastructure, by its very nature, has the capacity to actually limit the costs of distance. But unfortunately, the way that decisions have been made in the UK has had the opposite effect. We will do what we can within our resources to make up for the deficiencies of the decisions made by the UK Government. We will obviously put every pressure that we can to make sure that they live up to their responsibilities.

Diolch. I just need to correct you. In the previous UK Conservative Government, under David Cameron, £56.9 million of funding came directly into Wales for superfast Cymru broadband. And we then had Project Gigabit under Boris Johnson, the Right Honourable, again under a Conservative Government. [Laughter.] This must continue, and additionally, companies are now phasing out copper cables. So, my residents in Bangor Conwy Môn are really struggling because the phasing out of copper cables, which connect many residents to landlines, there's growing concern about people living in rural areas with poor mobile phone coverage.

What steps are you taking, Cabinet Minister, to ensure that those households in rural isolated parts—and there are many within Wales, but there are a lot in Bangor Conwy Môn—how are you going to support them as a Government throughout this transition, and how are you going to work with the UK Government now to ensure we get much better funding into Wales for this? Diolch.

Well, as I said, we will first of all hold the UK Government and the relevant stakeholders to the commitments that they have made. Where it's possible within the resources that we have, and within the levers that we have, we will do everything that we can to mitigate any of the deficiencies from the lack of investment that flows from the UK Government. I've met with some of the key companies in the sector to see which ways we can work smarter, develop innovative solutions in order to make sure that no community or no individual, as far as is possible, is digitally left behind. But we do need the UK Government to put that investment in that was promised.

Mae swyddogion Llywodraeth Cymru yn cynnal cyfarfodydd rheolaidd gyda National Grid Electricity Transmission. Mae gwaith gosod ffwrnais arc drydan Tata Steel UK yn fater masnachol. Fodd bynnag, rydyn ni’n codi'r mater fel y bo'n briodol.

Diolch, Weinidog. The decision to close the blast furnaces in Port Talbot was disastrous for my local community. Thousands of jobs were lost and the impact on the wider economy is severe. The National Grid connection offer for the new electric arc furnace was contracted for the end of 2027. However, a range of factors such as planning and ground conditions are threatening to delay the project, and some sources are saying that it could be as late as 2029 before the new furnace comes online.

Previously, you've mentioned that the Welsh Government is not a party to the commercial agreement between National Grid and Tata, but I'd like to ask what conversations you've had

but I'd like to ask what conversations you've had with National Grid regarding these delays and what further action will you take to prevent any further issues that could harm jobs and the local economy in Port Talbot. Diolch.

Yes, I'm very grateful to the Member for his supplementary question. I met with Tata Steel UK's CEO, Rajesh Nair, and the steel unions at Tata's Port Talbot site on 24 September to receive a further update on developments. We focused on a whole range of matters, including the issues around connectivity to the grid, which is at the heart of his question, but there were other matters as well around UK Government trade quotas and the effect that that was having on the domestic steel market. Following that meeting, I did meet with the UK Government's Minister for Reindustrialisation, Blair McDougall, together with the Secretary of State for Wales to discuss some of the matters that were raised. So, we are constantly engaging with the company, with the unions and also with the UK Government to ensure that Wales does—. I absolutely agree with him about the tragedy, really, of the loss of the blast furnaces, but we now need to make sure that we maximise the opportunity represented by the electric arc furnace. It will be the first or second-largest electric arc furnace anywhere in the world. There is the prospect for us to be producing more than 50 per cent of UK domestic steel capacity at a time when the UK Government has said that it wants to increase the level of domestic procurement. So, there is an opportunity there that is massive. We need to stay focused, I absolutely agree, in order to seize that opportunity.

Gweinidog Cabinet, I visited National Grid at Margam substation over the summer to discuss the connection to the Port Talbot substation needed for Tata Steel's electric arc furnace. National Grid there explained that there were a number of unexpected barriers, as the Member has previously alluded to, for example poor ground conditions that increase the number of piles required in the ground from the initial 400 to 11,000, adding an estimated 34 weeks to complete construction. They also outlined plans to recover some of that lost time. Given the importance of the project to the future of steel making in Port Talbot, can the Gweinidog confirm whether any progress has been made in reducing that 34 week delay and whether there is scope to shorten the construction programme further?

I think I will have to leave it to the company to share any information it would like to put in the public domain in relation to the current state of play. This is obviously market sensitive information. You can appreciate that it's most appropriate that that comes from the company, and I'm sure that they would want to allow the workforce to hear that information first. But I think that certainly one of the positive things that I'm sure that Tata Steel would not in any way have a problem with me sharing was the very positive experience that they had with Neath Port Talbot Council. We often hear, don't we, in the context of economic development, concerns around planning delay. Well, the message that I very clearly heard from the company was actually that they were incredibly impressed by the way in which the planning officers of Neath Port Talbot Council had really worked at an incredible pace and shown some innovation in how to manage that process. And there may be wider lessons that can be shared to other major projects across Wales. And we talked a little bit about how we could share that best practice.

As a result of this experience as well, we are very conscious of the importance of focusing in a very granular fashion on major developments and what that means for the grid. And we are, as I said, in discussion with National Grid Electricity Transmission and other relevant stakeholders to make sure that we learn from this experience and make sure that we identify areas where we can make progress in terms of the grid connection and its important role in our economy.

i gryfhau'r cymorth ymhellach.

Diolch yn fawr. The Plaid Cymru manifesto sets a target to significantly increase the amount of public procurement spending within Wales to 70 per cent. Now, given we spend £11 billion every year on public procurement, there's enormous potential there, isn't there, to better support Welsh businesses, potentially to create tens of thousands of jobs and to boost local supply chains as well. And the best bit, of course, is that this isn't new money, this is money that we're already spending. We need to spend it smarter; we need to make sure more of it goes to local businesses, to our workers and to our communities. So, can the Minister outline what practical steps he's taking to attain that 70 per cent target, and how we plan to measure progress? Diolch.

Yes, absolutely. The formal responsibility is with the finance Minister, but with this, it is very critically, as the Member says, a massive economic driver. It's one of the key tools of industrial policy, actually, public procurement. So, beyond the target, how are we going to achieve it, then, getting up to that 70 per cent? We will be setting this out in more detail very shortly. But part of it is working through, as I said, the way in which actual procurement contracts are structured. So, traditionally, large-scale construction contracts, for example, tend to go to companies the other side of the border because of the scale and the risk involved. Well, actually, just breaking those contracts up into smaller lots, it sounds very simple, but actually it has a huge impact, and it allows then companies, financially and practically, to get—. The same companies that often actually end up delivering the project anyway, but now you're taking out a tier and keeping all of that value in Wales.

I think that part of it is also about training companies up, companies that possibly have not been involved in larger scale procurement exercises and might have some fear or inhibition about doing so, so actually working with them in a different context. I'm going to a procurement exercise in north Wales in relation to the Wylfa project—same kind of approach: how to get Welsh SMEs, many of which have never thought of putting themselves forward, just to understand, 'Look, there's nothing to be worried about. It's a process. You've got the skills, you've got the capacity, you can deliver the product, in many cases at lower cost. You've just got to have the confidence to put your name forward.'

Rydym ni wedi ymrwymo i sicrhau bod cymorth i'r sector amddiffyn yn cael ei ystyried mewn ffordd amserol a chymesur. Tra bod y fframwaith buddsoddi moesegol mewn amddiffyn yn cael ei ddatblygu, mae trefniadau interim ar waith i alluogi penderfyniadau brys i gael eu gwneud pan fo angen.

Diolch. Earlier this year, I visited PMB Battery Technologies UK Ltd, a cutting-edge research and manufacturing company that operates facilities in Ebbw Vale and in Adelaide, Australia. This is a company specialising in advanced battery technology, and a great benefit to the local economy and the people it employs. That day, I met directly with apprentices at the company, young people from Ebbw Vale and the local area, fresh out of education, now in high-skilled and well-paid, meaningful employment. This is exactly the sort of industry we need to attract to deprived areas like Blaenau Gwent, which suffer with high levels of people, especially young people, classified as NEET: not in employment, education or training.

Companies like this rely on the Government grants to expand their operations in Wales and ensure that old and outdated facilities meet the needs of modern research and manufacturing. So, what steps is the Government taking to ensure that competitive modern industries are kept in Wales, grants are timely, and they are not pushed to relocate elsewhere?

I'm grateful to the Member, not least for giving an example, actually, of the very phenomenon that I was referring to in response to a colleague earlier, that these high-tech companies can find very, very successful bases in all parts of Wales, including in the northern Valleys.

We are committed to doing whatever we can in every sector, but in this sector as well, to support the creation