29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
I'm through. I'm through.
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
But we're not concerned with policy on this committee; we're concerned with the legal aspects of it, and it's the legal aspects I'm commenting upon.
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
Minister, this committee is not concerned with policy—
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
All right. Fair enough.
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
Well, I was—
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
If you say—. Thank you; I'll just finish with this bit. You must have, Minister, given significant consideration to what if this Bill doesn't proceed. Because there is no consensus, and let's not pretend there is, on this matter of competence. It's what is…
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
That's what I wanted to hear, as it happens. So, we will have a conduct Order. The Chair has outlined some concerns that this committee will, I have no doubt, share about the breadth of the powers being taken by Government on these matters. You're familiar…
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
You say 'Yes'; you don't know what I'm going to say yet. It's going to be subject to challenge and will undoubtedly go to the Supreme Court. And so my concern is the disruption to the development of the conduct Order, and therefore to minimise the disruption…
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
So, there will be a conduct Order in place, because it's clear to me that the Bill we're debating this afternoon will be subject to—
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
I understand that. My conclusion from those remarks is that there is a conduct Order currently under development, being led by the Counsel General, that will be laid in front of this committee, and that conduct Order will be for the 2026 elections but will…
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
Well, there's been one in the past, but there's going to have to be a different conduct Order.
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
Thank you. So, you're essentially creating a conduct Order at the moment that doesn't include reference to this current Bill.
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
I'm fine.
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
And that is the problem. Because what you're saying there is that there is more than a loose or consequential relationship between the Bill and a reserved matter, and that, as you've just described, Will, is the heart of the issues that this committee are…
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
I accept that, but the problem you have is that the second Bill you referred to, the Members and elections Bill, doesn't engage the same reservations and the same competence issues as this Bill does. And I'm not sure the Government helps its case by claiming…
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
Minister, we're not here to discuss the policy side of this. I have no observation to make on the policy side of things in terms of the debate that we're having this afternoon. My concern is about the status of the Bill, and I have significant concerns that…
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
That's one out of four.
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
I don't think anybody is concerned about the purpose of having a more representative Senedd, and there are all sorts of conversations that have occurred about that. I think the concern we have here is the methodology being adopted by the Welsh Government. We…
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
[Inaudible.]—is to do the same thing, isn't it?
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
So, why do you think that applies but this Bill is different?
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
I'm asking—. I was thinking your lawyer might be able to answer.
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
I think it's very difficult to argue that this is incidental. Have you taken account of the For Women Scotland v. the Lord Advocate and Scottish Ministers decision of the Inner House of the Court of Session?
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
So, how do you tackle that then?
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
But the provision has more than one purpose if one of those purposes is greater than a loose or consequential connection with a reserved matter. Now, one of the issues you've got with reserved matters, of course, is that the equal opportunities reservation…
29 Ebrill 2024 , Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Bil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol): Sesiwn dystiolaeth
But it also—. That is an incomplete, if you don't mind me saying, quotation from the Government of Wales Act, of course, because what the Government of Wales Act goes on to discuss is the effect of the legislation, and there is also a test about modifying UK…
